Quote:Nowhere does *YOUR* link mention anything about the need to lie and cheat "as a means to achieve objectives" - the only thing it mentions - in both the sunni and shia view - is as a last resort when lives are in danger.
Abu liked to explain that islam permitted lying in the context of war, and that he believed the west had been at war with the Muslims world for over a century. He also insisted that only Shites allow themselves to lie.
Quote:I don't care. I think in future I'll ignore your claims about anything Abu allegedly said until you provide the actual quotes. I'm not saying you are wrong - but given your track record (camel urine claims), you can forgive me for being sceptical.
But if I did go to the trouble of providing quotes, you would just dismiss it as the opinion of one random person. So is there any point?
My point is of course that rejecting specific actions of fellow Muslims is not the same as Muslims rejecting violence, oppression, cruelty etc in general or in all contexts.
Quote:Well you can take the numerous PEW surveys on muslim attitudes, and look at things like coexistence with non-muslims, freedom of religion, etc as a start. Plus all those statements, declarations, fatwas etc given by mainstream muslim leaders promoting the peaceful, tolerant version of islam.
Islam has always publicly promoted two versions of itself. It is part of the empire building strategy. The command to put up with non-Muslims outside of the empire does not in any way contradict the commands to oppress non-Muslims within the empire.
Quote:But you seem to be missing the point - yet again. The whole point of this exercise is to prove your incessant claims (and its not just you) that mainstream islam promotes violence and extremism - and that being a terrorist comes from following the mainstream version of islam (in direct contradiction of the MI5 study mentioned earlier).
Then your entire point is a strawman. BTW, the MI5 study does not actually contradict that view, unless you think modern terrorism is the only expression of Islamic violence. Even Abu rejects these particular forms of terrorism.
Quote:I see - reject every muslim's claims, except one - who just so happens to support your narrow view of what islam's all about.
Abu made a good case that he represents mainstream Islam. You have not.
Quote:Every Muslim I've known has been honest, hard working and usually quite nice people. I was willing, when in the Army, to trust my life to my best mate who was a Muslim. I'd have no qualms doing so again. I work everyday with Muslims. I have taught Muslims and I've studied with Muslims. All were good people. Nothing unusual about them, none were firebrands. None were any different to the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists I've known. They just worshipped a different god, that's all.
So none of your views are based on talking to Muslims about the political aspects of Islam? Like spot, you claim to have gained your understanding of Islam through some kind of osmotic process?
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Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? (Read 61540 times)
