Australian Politics Forum - Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?

Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21876 A cat with a view	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #165 - May 12^th, 2013 at 7:01pm Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:52pm: Of course Muslims can't win, Gandalf. Bigots because of their bigotry, will never allow them to. Moslems will not win. God wins. It is a 'fixed' game. God is a 'bigot' too, you see. [I'm only kidding, LORD!!!!!! ]
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42257	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #166 - May 12^th, 2013 at 7:07pm Which God? Who's God? Is there a God? Yadda, you've just told us why you are a bigot towards Muslims. Obviously Freedom of Worship for you means the freedom for everybody to worship your God, am I correct?
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freediver

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #167 - May 12^th, 2013 at 7:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

Quote:

You claim to be defending democracy but you'd deny it to people on the basis of their opinions because you disagree with them, FD?

See Brian, this is another example of you substituting one of your little fantasies for what I actually say.

That is exactly what you said, FD. Do I really need to deconstruct your sentences for you? If that wasn't want you meant then change what you're saying because that is what I'm reading.

Yes please. I'd love to see you try to explain how I would deny people democracy.

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So, are Muslims allowed to express their own opinions?

Of course they are. I even facilitate it. It has been a real learning experience for me.

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'cause when you ask, "So if Muslims obey the law while promoting the destruction of freedom and democracy, you will not complain until after they have taken away your right to?"

You're essentially saying, "Muslims aren't allowed to express their opinions 'cause I disagree with them, cause they are espousing the destruction of freedom and democracy."

I see this is going to be harder than I thought. All I can recommend is that you stick to what I *actually* rather than what I am *essentially* saying.

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Substitute the word "black person" or "Jew" for "Muslim" and it's immediately obvious you're espousing bigotry, FD.

Trust me Brian, if Jews or negros marched through Sydney and Melbourne demanding someone's head be chopped off for mocking Jews and negros, I would complain. But they don't. Only Muslims do.

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FD, you're not only claiming that Muslims cannot be first-class citizens

Actually, only Muslims promoted the concept of second class citizenship here based on religious lines. Again, stick to what I actually say. Your imagination is getting away from you again.

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I believe democracy and freedom is stronger than what a minority of a minority (Muslims) espouse as their opinions. I'm no more afraid of what some Muslims say than I am of what the tiny minority of Nazis or Communists in our society say.

But would you turn into a sycophantic apologist for Nazis as soon as someone criticised them? Or do only Muslims get this special treatment?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #168 - May 12^th, 2013 at 7:21pm

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:16pm:

But would you turn into a sycophantic apologist for Nazis as soon as someone criticised them? Or do only Muslims get this special treatment?

I sincerely doubt there are many real Nazis left, FD. They'd all be over 90 by now. If, however people were persecuting continually for merely having a different political opinion, then yes I'd stand up for their rights. I'd criticise them as well but I'd acknowledge that they, as citizens have an implied right to freedom of speech in our polity. Far more than you seem to be allowing for all Muslims... Roll Eyes

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simonhall1900

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #169 - May 12^th, 2013 at 7:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:52pm:

Of course Muslims can't win, Gandalf. Bigots because of their bigotry, will never allow them to. Roll Eyes

Really, are you intent on converting the world or is it just this forum? If so, you definitely need to direct your sermon elsewhere, I for one will never agree with excuses made by you for the murdering scum you take pains to say are but a few who have broken away from the many, and I will never warm to people who cannot stop the vast majority of their own congregation from being venomously opposed to the western world, or infidels as you prefer to call us.
Call me prejudice, a bigot, an infidel..whatever, if it makes you feel better, as I've already said, I couldn't care less. But after seeing the dark side of Islam, it'll be a cold day in hell before you win me over.............buddy!

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« Last Edit: May 12^th, 2013 at 7:43pm by simonhall1900 »

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #170 - May 12^th, 2013 at 7:36pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:07pm:

Which God?

The God of creation.i
Quote:

Who's God?

The God of the Jews.

Moslems call him SATAN. [....but i can assure you, that the God of the Jews, is the God of creation. Wink

But hey, i'm only human. Right ? Cheesy

]i Quote:

Is there a God?

Fraid so.

He is a spirit being, who created everything which you perceive.

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Yadda, you've just told us why you are a bigot towards Muslims.

Did i ?

Well that must be nice for you.

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Obviously Freedom of Worship for you means the freedom for everybody to worship your God, am I correct? Roll Eyes

You are a bigot Brian.

Am I correct?i
p.s.

My God, is bigger than their god [the moslem god].

Much, much, BIGGER!

Hey, i'm just having a lend of you Brian. Grin

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #171 - May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm

simonhall1900 wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:52pm:

Of course Muslims can't win, Gandalf. Bigots because of their bigotry, will never allow them to. Roll Eyes

Really, are you intent on converting the world or is it just this forum? If so, you definitely need to direct your sermon elsewhere, I for one will never agree with excuses made by you for the murdering scum you take pains to say are but a few who have broken away from the many, and I will never warm to people who cannot stop the vast majority of their own congregation from being venomously opposed to the western world, or infidels as you prefer to call us.
Call me prejudice, a bigot, an infidel..whatever, if it makes you feel better, as I've already said, I couldn't care less. But after seeing the dark side of Islam, it'll be a cold day in hell before you win me over.............buddy!

Your immaturity is showing through, again. I'm not trying to convert anybody to anything except fairness and balance in their attitudes towards innocent people who have committed no crimes. You seem to have real problems with someone doing that. I wonder why? Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #172 - May 12^th, 2013 at 8:10pm

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:36pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:07pm:

Which God?

The God of creation.

Which God is that?

Quote:

Quote:

Who's God?

The God of the Jews.

Moslems call him SATAN. [....but i can assure you, that the God of the Jews, is the God of creation. Wink

But hey, i'm only human. Right ? Cheesy

]

So, you're Jewish?

Shalom.

Quote:

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Is there a God?

Fraid so.

He is a spirit being, who created everything which you perceive.

Really? I see no evidence of that. I see a great deal of evidence of physical laws which did that.

Quote:

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Yadda, you've just told us why you are a bigot towards Muslims.

Did i ?

Well that must be nice for you.

Not really. Was it nice for you? Did the Earth move? Grin

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Obviously Freedom of Worship for you means the freedom for everybody to worship your God, am I correct? Roll Eyes

You are a bigot Brian.

Am I correct?

Nope. I judge people as individuals, not as members of a collective. I don't believe in guilt by association. You do. Is that fair on the innocent? No. Only the ignorant and immature blame people for being members of a group when they've done nothing personally.

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p.s.

My God, is bigger than their god [the moslem god].

Much, much, BIGGER!

Hey, i'm just having a lend of you Brian. Grin

It is bigger? How do you measure God? By definition it is omnipotent and omnipresent, therefore infinite. You can't measure it then. Shocked

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #173 - May 12^th, 2013 at 8:34pm Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm: Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Ah, bigotry. The term of last resort for those who can't think of a reasonable argument. 'You are a bigot' = you are right but I don't like it.
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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #174 - May 12^th, 2013 at 8:55pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:10pm:

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:36pm:

Quote:

Who's God?

The God of the Jews.

Moslems call him SATAN. [....but i can assure you, that the God of the Jews, is the God of creation. Wink

But hey, i'm only human. Right ? Cheesy

]

So, you're Jewish?

Why ?

Does it matter ?

Are you a bigot or something ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #175 - May 12^th, 2013 at 9:28pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

If they do bad things, they are obviously bad.

If they do bad thing in the name of islam - what then?

Am I the bigot for noticing it? Am I judgemental for noticing that Muslims are murdering other Muslims in the name of Allah and their reading of the Koran.

Shouldn't Muslims take responsibility for their crazies? They are crazy on behalf of the 'law abiding Muslim majority'.

I am sure you would nod like a nodding dog if I said that Christians should take responsibility for murders committed in the name of Jesus. But when it comes to Muslims, they are a protected species - they may be Muslims but NOTHING they do is to be pinned on Islam coz that's BIGOTED!!

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #176 - May 12^th, 2013 at 9:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:45pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:26pm:

Effect?

zero.

Good game, that. Big chief condemns. Nobody listens. 'Mainstream' Muslims can shrug and move on, Islam has nuffin to do wiv nuffin.

What are you talking about?

Who said it had zero effect? Have you conducted your own detailed analysis?

Are these muslim patrols still happening? Are the running rampant across the UK? No. Did the muslim leadership's condemnation of this have an effect? Quite possibly.

Muslims just can't win in your book - they stand up and say something against extremism and you just mock them Tongue

SHow us how the condemnation by 'muslims leaders' worked.

After all, this was YOUR point, not mine. It is not for me to show that your random assertion is true.

Show me how these patrols have stopped in the wake of condemnation.

Brian, stop smacking clapping like a moron (or stop clapping like a smacking moron - take your pick). Your shtick is to ignore and deny any and every responsibility Muslims have for their reputation. Validating stupid arguments is going beyond your remit.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #177 - May 12^th, 2013 at 9:44pm

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Roll Eyes

Ah, bigotry. The term of last resort for those who can't think of a reasonable argument.

'You are a bigot' = you are right but I don't like it.

Attacking people because of their religious affiliations is bigotry, Soren.

If you think it is an appropriate mature way to act towards innocent people, Soren then I feel sorry for you. Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #178 - May 12^th, 2013 at 9:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Roll Eyes

Ah, bigotry. The term of last resort for those who can't think of a reasonable argument.

'You are a bigot' = you are right but I don't like it.

Attacking people because of their religious affiliations is bigotry, Soren.

If you think it is an appropriate mature way to act towards innocent people, Soren then I feel sorry for you. Roll Eyes

Nobody is attacked for his religious affiliation.

The religion is attacked for facilitating violence in its name. You distance yourself from jihad (a central and essential plank of Islam) and you are not attacked. Your private spiritual convictions are not attacked at all. Have an spiritual, inner jihad, knock yourself out. 'My spiritual kampf' by Johnny Islam. All power to ya.

But if your religion is a cover and justification for violence, your religion is subject to criticism, including - ** gasp** - condemnation.

I am sure this is all too much like sophistry to your mind, but there it is. An important distinction. If you don't see it, you are blind. If you do see it but feel duty bound to pretend that you don't, then you are dishonest.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #179 - May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

If they do bad things, they are obviously bad.

If they do bad thing in the name of islam - what then?

Then they are bad. Why do you assume that their interpretation of Islam is the correct one? Particularly when so many other Muslims don't agree with them to the point where the Takfiri Terrorists are killing them to make them agree?

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Am I the bigot for noticing it? Am I judgemental for noticing that Muslims are murdering other Muslims in the name of Allah and their reading of the Koran.

You are bigoted because you keep saying that all Muslims are to blame, Soren. That all Muslims believe in the same interpretation of Islam. That they are all indentical, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

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Shouldn't Muslims take responsibility for their crazies? They are crazy on behalf of the 'law abiding Muslim majority'.

They do and no, they aren't crazy on "on behalf of the 'law abiding Muslim majority'." Except in their own minds.

Do you think the mainstream Muslim majority enjoy being victimised by the crazies any more than you fear you are?

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I am sure you would nod like a nodding dog if I said that Christians should take responsibility for murders committed in the name of Jesus. But when it comes to Muslims, they are a protected species - they may be Muslims but NOTHING they do is to be pinned on Islam coz that's BIGOTED!!

Muslims are forced to take responsibility, Soren by bigots such as yourself, no matter how disconnected they are in reality. If you treated Christians or Hindus or Buddhists in the same way, I'd think your beef was with Terrorism, not with Muslims... Roll Eyes

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