Australian Politics Forum - Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?

Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #180 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:06pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

If they do bad things, they are obviously bad.

If they do bad thing in the name of islam - what then?

Then they are bad. Why do you assume that their interpretation of Islam is the correct one?

How do you know it isn't??

There is an awful lot of 'allahu akhbaring' when bombs go off. Coincidence??

I don't think so.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #181 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:08pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

You are bigoted because you keep saying that all Muslims are to blame, Soren. That all Muslims believe in the same interpretation of Islam. That they are all indentical, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Bollocks.
I said that this is not about Muslims but about Islam.

Wake up.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #182 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:09pm Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm: Do you think the mainstream Muslim majority enjoy being victimised by the crazies any more than you fear you are? No. But I do think that they are afraid of the crazies even more than I am.
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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #183 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Muslims are forced to take responsibility, Soren by bigots such as yourself, no matter how disconnected they are in reality. If you treated Christians or Hindus or Buddhists in the same way, I'd think your beef was with Terrorism, not with Muslims... Roll Eyes

Muslims should take responsibility for terrorism committed in the name Islam - how smacking outrageous!!! Everyone else but Muslims should be responsible for all the 'allahu akhbaring' when bombs go off.

Good thinking Brian. Any other bright ideas?

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #184 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:32pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Roll Eyes

Ah, bigotry. The term of last resort for those who can't think of a reasonable argument.

'You are a bigot' = you are right but I don't like it.

Attacking people because of their religious affiliations is bigotry, Soren.

And attacking people because their religious affiliation, is not with ISLAM, is religious bigotry, Brian.

And that is what moslems do.

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe.

ISLAM teaches all moslems [from childhood], that such behaviour is 'lawful' for them.

So Brian_Ross, PLEASE TELL US ALL;

#1,
Why is OK for moslems to be taught religious BIGOTRY by ISLAM ???

#2,
Why is it so, so, wrong, for myself [or anyone else] to criticise ISLAMIC religious BIGOTRY ?

And why, in Australia, to we allow moslems to teach such religious bigotry to their children, in ISLAMIC schools ?

BELOW, THE EVIDENCE OF ISLAM'S RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY - A RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY WHICH Brian_Ross REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse....."
Koran 3.118

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

+++

In the UK, a moslem community leader speaking >> BEFORE << the London 7/7 Bus and Subway bombings....

Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&on...

AND;

Speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #185 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:36pm

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

You are bigoted because you keep saying that all Muslims are to blame, Soren. That all Muslims believe in the same interpretation of Islam. That they are all indentical, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Bollocks.
I said that this is not about Muslims but about Islam.

Wake up.

Take a deep breath, Soren.

I've been there and done that with Brian and it makes no difference.

Next it'll be about Islam being open to interpretation, the schisms between different brands of Muslims and the mention of the 'tiny minority'.

Common sense and reality cannot be permitted to enter this discussion. What is currently happening around the globe is the result of a few radicals. And, in any case, the Crusades etc. paint all the rest of the world just as guilty. It justifies such actions.

It's the West, and everyone else, who is at fault here. We are the oppressors, the bigots, the haters.

Islam is the 'Religion of Peace', don't you know that yet?

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Toughen up, Australia!

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #186 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:38pm

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:39pm:

SHow us how the condemnation by 'muslims leaders' worked.

After all, this was YOUR point, not mine. It is not for me to show that your random assertion is true.

Show me how these patrols have stopped in the wake of condemnation.

No, Soren, it was your claim that "no one listens" to these leaders.

And stop shifting the goal posts - my only point in relation to this was that muslim leaders *DO* speak out against extremism. Thats been your beef all along remember? Muslims don't take responsibility for their own? But here we have muslim leaders doing exactly that - and its still not good enough.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #187 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:48pm

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe.

ISLAM teaches all moslems [from childhood], that such behaviour is 'lawful' for them.

So Brian_Ross, PLEASE TELL US ALL;

#1,
Why is OK for moslems to be taught religious BIGOTRY by ISLAM ???

#2,
Why is it so, so, wrong, for myself [or anyone else] to criticise ISLAMIC religious BIGOTRY ?

And why, in Australia, to we allow moslems to teach such religious bigotry to their children, in ISLAMIC schools ?

BELOW;

AUSTRALIA AND THE BROADER AUSTRALIAN COMMUNITY, HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM

These Australian moslems, marching on a Sydney street, ARE DECLARING TO AUSTRALIA, that they believe that they have a right to murder people, who do not believe as they believe.

NOW, the question that i ask the Australian government, is this;

IF IT WAS NOT ISLAM, then who taught these Australian moslems, to believe that they have a right to murder people, who do not believe as they believe ???

It was ISLAM!!

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

The serious problem which i refer to, above, is that we have allowed this separate culture to live and to grow among us.

And these people, moslems, are being taught by ISLAM, that they, moslems, have a special right, to intimidate and to kill persons who do not believe what they believe.

And these moslems were taught that, by their own ISLAMIC culture.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #188 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:54pm

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

If they do bad things, they are obviously bad.

If they do bad thing in the name of islam - what then?

Then they are bad. Why do you assume that their interpretation of Islam is the correct one?

How do you know it isn't??

'cause of all the Muslims who disagree with them to the point that the Takfiri have to kill them and terrorise them to make them agree? Roll Eyes

Quote:

There is an awful lot of 'allahu akhbaring' when bombs go off. Coincidence??

Is that the level of your thinking? Really? Roll Eyes

Someone calls out "God is Great" and that means their interpretation of Islam is the correct one? Shocked

Quote:

I don't think so.

You don't think. Period. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #189 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:56pm

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

You are bigoted because you keep saying that all Muslims are to blame, Soren. That all Muslims believe in the same interpretation of Islam. That they are all indentical, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Bollocks.
I said that this is not about Muslims but about Islam.

Wake up.

YET, your comments are directly continually specifically against Muslims, Soren. Ah, contradictions, got to love them... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #190 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:57pm

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Roll Eyes

Ah, bigotry. The term of last resort for those who can't think of a reasonable argument.

'You are a bigot' = you are right but I don't like it.

Attacking people because of their religious affiliations is bigotry, Soren.

And attacking people because their religious affiliation, is not with ISLAM, is religious bigotry, Brian.

That doesn't make any sense, Yada, even after I've taken your crayons away. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #191 - May 12^th, 2013 at 10:59pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:36pm:

Take a deep breath, Soren.

I've been there and done that with Brian and it makes no difference.

Next it'll be about Islam being open to interpretation, the schisms between different brands of Muslims and the mention of the 'tiny minority'.

Common sense and reality cannot be permitted to enter this discussion. What is currently happening around the globe is the result of a few radicals. And, in any case, the Crusades etc. paint all the rest of the world just as guilty. It justifies such actions.

It's the West, and everyone else, who is at fault here. We are the oppressors, the bigots, the haters.

Islam is the 'Religion of Peace', don't you know that yet?

Ah, sniping from the sidelines still, Lionel.

Your "common sense" isn't either common nor makes very much sense.

You dismiss all the criticisms of your bigotry because they show up the contradictions in it. Who made you Pope BTW? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #192 - May 12^th, 2013 at 11:02pm

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:48pm:

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe.

ISLAM teaches all moslems [from childhood], that such behaviour is 'lawful' for them.

So Brian_Ross, PLEASE TELL US ALL;

#1,
Why is OK for moslems to be taught religious BIGOTRY by ISLAM ???

#2,
Why is it so, so, wrong, for myself [or anyone else] to criticise ISLAMIC religious BIGOTRY ?

And why, in Australia, to we allow moslems to teach such religious bigotry to their children, in ISLAMIC schools ?

BELOW;

AUSTRALIA AND THE BROADER AUSTRALIAN COMMUNITY, HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM

These Australian moslems, marching on a Sydney street, ARE DECLARING TO AUSTRALIA, that they believe that they have a right to murder people, who do not believe as they believe.

So? They are bad Muslims, Yada. Not all Muslims agree with them. Yet, you seem to think they do for some reason. The fact that Muslim community leaders criticised them and their actions publicly after the 2012 Sydney Riot appears to have passed you by. You declared they are all liars for some reason. That is bigotry.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #193 - May 12^th, 2013 at 11:32pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:02pm:

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:48pm:

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe.

ISLAM teaches all moslems [from childhood], that such behaviour is 'lawful' for them.

So Brian_Ross, PLEASE TELL US ALL;

#1,
Why is OK for moslems to be taught religious BIGOTRY by ISLAM ???

#2,
Why is it so, so, wrong, for myself [or anyone else] to criticise ISLAMIC religious BIGOTRY ?

And why, in Australia, to we allow moslems to teach such religious bigotry to their children, in ISLAMIC schools ?

BELOW;

AUSTRALIA AND THE BROADER AUSTRALIAN COMMUNITY, HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM

These Australian moslems, marching on a Sydney street, ARE DECLARING TO AUSTRALIA, that they believe that they have a right to murder people, who do not believe as they believe.

So? They are bad Muslims, Yada.

Yes, but where did that 'badness' come from ?

ISLAM = = 'badness', wickedness.

Quote:

Not all Muslims agree with them.

CORRECTION;
'Not all Muslims' want us to believe, that they do not agree with them.

Quote:

The fact that Muslim community leaders criticised them and their actions publicly after the 2012 Sydney Riot appears to have passed you by.

It is a lie.

You are lying.

The moslem community leaders [obliquely] criticised the police.

No one else.

That is how i interpreted the words of the moslem community leaders.

Listen carefully to the words that the moslem spokesmen used;

YT
Muslim leaders 'call for calm' goto 1m 40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyKXA2b9WI4

THERE WAS NEVER ANY DIRECT CRITICISM OF THE PLACARD PROTESTERS.
[if there was, then direct me to a link]

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1367379581/28#28

Quote:

You declared they are all liars for some reason. That is bigotry.

Not if moslems are all liars.

Not if all moslems barefacedly lie, when they communicate with non-believers - so as to promote ISLAM's [and their own] interests.

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #194 - May 12^th, 2013 at 11:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:57pm:

Yadda wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Do you believe bigotry is an appropriate attitude to display as an adult in modern society? Roll Eyes

Ah, bigotry. The term of last resort for those who can't think of a reasonable argument.

'You are a bigot' = you are right but I don't like it.

Attacking people because of their religious affiliations is bigotry, Soren.

And attacking people because their religious affiliation, is not with ISLAM, is religious bigotry, Brian.

That doesn't make any sense, Yada, even after I've taken your crayons away.

No, Brian_Ross.

What i wrote doesn't make any sense,
.......after you edited out all of the references [in my post] to ISLAMIC religious bigotry.

So this is how you play, is it ?

Everyone who criticises ISLAM is a bigot.

And if some shows you ISLAMIC religious bigotry, you 'avert your eyes' ?

Brian_Ross,

You are not a man.

You are a cowardly worm.

You are a rat, frightened of the light.

Just retreat, back into the darkness, where you are comfortable.

Q.
Why do you hate truth so much, Brian_Ross ?

A.
Because truth reveals that reality does not align with your worldview.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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