Australian Politics Forum - Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?

Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #195 - May 13^th, 2013 at 12:04am

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Muslims are forced to take responsibility, Soren by bigots such as yourself, no matter how disconnected they are in reality. If you treated Christians or Hindus or Buddhists in the same way, I'd think your beef was with Terrorism, not with Muslims... Roll Eyes

Muslims should take responsibility for terrorism committed in the name Islam - how smacking outrageous!!! Everyone else but Muslims should be responsible for all the 'allahu akhbaring' when bombs go off.

Good thinking Brian. Any other bright ideas?

You don't give them a chance not to, Soren. Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #196 - May 13^th, 2013 at 9:58am

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 12:04am:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Muslims are forced to take responsibility, Soren by bigots such as yourself, no matter how disconnected they are in reality. If you treated Christians or Hindus or Buddhists in the same way, I'd think your beef was with Terrorism, not with Muslims... Roll Eyes

Muslims should take responsibility for terrorism committed in the name Islam - how smacking outrageous!!! Everyone else but Muslims should be responsible for all the 'allahu akhbaring' when bombs go off.

Good thinking Brian. Any other bright ideas?

You don't give them a chance not to, Soren. Roll Eyes

The first World Trade Centre bombing was in 1993 - 20 years ago.
How long do they need to realise that they have a problem?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #197 - May 13^th, 2013 at 10:31am

Soren wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

The first World Trade Centre bombing was in 1993 - 20 years ago.
How long do they need to realise that they have a problem?

Of course they realise there is a problem. Muslims communities in the west have been on the front foot all along - promoting peace and tolerance, and being proactive to prevent violence in the name of islam.

The evidence that I have demonstrated is that its when muslims go *OUTSIDE* mainstream islam, either self-radicalise or follow an extremist leader who is rejected by mainstream islam, only then does extremism and violence occur. Now of course FD likes to pretend that while mainstream islam does indeed reject this sort of "informal" violence, they in fact promote a more organised form of violence - that can only be practiced at the "right time and place". He just doesn't have any evidence this is the case.

Your claims that mainstream islam is ignoring the problem, and not taking responsibility, are completely baseless. I believe they do all they can - and in fact are very successful in guiding their flock to the path of tolerance and to reject violence - not to mention having very good cooperative relationships with authorities to hunt down potential terrorists (look up the program in the UK for example). Yet at the same time they are powerless to stop the provocations by their own governments like invading Iraq and blind support for Israel - that undoubtedly cause massive resentment, and contributes to a small minority of muslims choosing their own path of radicalism. Note that the perpetrators of both the London and Madrid bombings specifically cited Britain and Spain's support for the invasion of Iraqb as their motive.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #198 - May 13^th, 2013 at 11:55am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 10:31am:

Soren wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

The first World Trade Centre bombing was in 1993 - 20 years ago.
How long do they need to realise that they have a problem?

Of course they realise there is a problem. Muslims communities in the west have been on the front foot all along - promoting peace and tolerance, and being proactive to prevent violence in the name of islam.

The evidence that I have demonstrated is that its when muslims go *OUTSIDE* mainstream islam, either self-radicalise or follow an extremist leader who is rejected by mainstream islam, only then does extremism and violence occur. Now of course FD likes to pretend that while mainstream islam does indeed reject this sort of "informal" violence, they in fact promote a more organised form of violence - that can only be practiced at the "right time and place". He just doesn't have any evidence this is the case.

Your claims that mainstream islam is ignoring the problem, and not taking responsibility, are completely baseless. I believe they do all they can - and in fact are very successful in guiding their flock to the path of tolerance and to reject violence - not to mention having very good cooperative relationships with authorities to hunt down potential terrorists (look up the program in the UK for example). Yet at the same time they are powerless to stop the provocations by their own governments like invading Iraq and blind support for Israel - that undoubtedly cause massive resentment, and contributes to a small minority of muslims choosing their own path of radicalism. Note that the perpetrators of both the London and Madrid bombings specifically cited Britain and Spain's support for the invasion of Iraqb as their motive.

Oh, yes, citing. What did the 1993 World Trade Centre bombers cite? Or the 2001 World Trade Centre murders, come to think of it. The Bali bombers?

Propbably the Crusades. Or the Reconquista. There is always something to cite when it comes to Islamic grievances.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #199 - May 13^th, 2013 at 2:38pm

Soren wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 12:04am:

Soren wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:59pm:

Muslims are forced to take responsibility, Soren by bigots such as yourself, no matter how disconnected they are in reality. If you treated Christians or Hindus or Buddhists in the same way, I'd think your beef was with Terrorism, not with Muslims... Roll Eyes

Muslims should take responsibility for terrorism committed in the name Islam - how smacking outrageous!!! Everyone else but Muslims should be responsible for all the 'allahu akhbaring' when bombs go off.

Good thinking Brian. Any other bright ideas?

You don't give them a chance not to, Soren. Roll Eyes

The first World Trade Centre bombing was in 1993 - 20 years ago.
How long do they need to realise that they have a problem?

How long has it taken Christianity to realise it has a problem with paedophiles in the ranks of it's clergy, Soren?

Once more, you single Muslims out while you claim you're talking about Islam only. Roll Eyes

Islam is what it's believers make it. Most make it a religion of peace. Some make it a religion of intolerance and Terrorism. You just blame them all. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: May 13^th, 2013 at 7:09pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #200 - May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 2:38pm:

Islam is.....what it's believers make it.

Most make it a religion of peace.

Some make it a religion of intolerance and Terrorism. You just blame them all.

Brian_Ross,

How can we come to agreement, if you constantly mis-represent the true circumstances ?

you said....
"Islam is.....what it's believers make it. Most make it a religion of peace."

WRONG.

Moslems seek to portray ISLAM as a religion of peace.

But seeking to make that false portrayal, moslems are liars.

And believers do not define the religion.

The (a) religion defines itself.

you said....
"Some make it a religion of intolerance and Terrorism. You just blame them all."

ISLAM is a religion a vicious supremacist political philosophy, which promotes the use of deception, blatant lying, intimidation and extreme violence to further its aims.

Those are not the normal ways to 'worship' a deity.

Political ISLAM hides behind a veil of deceit, portraying itself as a religion.

But all of ISLAM's/moslem objectives for society, are political objectives.

ISLAM seek to rule

the state [of man].

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21879 A cat with a view	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #201 - May 13^th, 2013 at 3:19pm Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm: And believers do not define the religion. The (a) religion defines itself. ......a religion is 'defined' within it own 'religious' texts. And the false 'religion' of ISLAM also defines itself, within its own foundation texts - the Koran and Hadith.
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

simonhall1900 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 314	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #202 - May 13^th, 2013 at 3:23pm Islam is not a religion, it is an ideology of fanatics which produces, through indoctrination, worldwide terrorism.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #203 - May 13^th, 2013 at 4:02pm

Soren wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 11:55am:

[quote author=gandalf link=1367633212/197#197 date=1368405081]ed at the "right time and place". He just doesn't have any evidence this is the case.

Oh, yes, citing. What did the 1993 World Trade Centre bombers cite? Or the 2001 World Trade Centre murders, come to think of it. The Bali bombers?

Propbably the Crusades. Or the Reconquista. There is always something to cite when it comes to Islamic grievances.

The 93 trade centre terrorist sent a letter to various US newspapers stating US's interference in the middle east - including support for Israel as the reason for the attack. Osama bin Laden has repeatedly stated US's involvement in the middle east as his motivation in organising terror attacks.

Do these justifications excuse terrorism? No. Does any mainstream leader in the west attempt to justify these attacks? No.

So what exactly is your point Soren? I don't think you have one - because you are not even remotely addressing my key points related to how mainstream islam doesn't condone these attacks, and is in fact working hard to prevent them.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #204 - May 13^th, 2013 at 7:06pm

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 2:38pm:

Islam is.....what it's believers make it.

Most make it a religion of peace.

Some make it a religion of intolerance and Terrorism. You just blame them all.

Brian_Ross,

How can we come to agreement, if you constantly mis-represent the true circumstances ?

Yadda, if coming to agreement with you means that innocent people must be persecuted, we're never going to "come to agreement." I'm not sorry, either.

You are not the solution. You're just as much the problem as the bigots and intolerant Takfiri Islamists are... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #205 - May 13^th, 2013 at 7:07pm

simonhall1900 wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:23pm:

Islam is not a religion, it is an ideology of fanatics which produces, through indoctrination, worldwide terrorism.

Such bigotry is based on ignorance and prejudice, not rational thought or understanding. You and your views are just as much the problem as the Takfiri Islamists are. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #206 - May 13^th, 2013 at 7:08pm

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:19pm:

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

And believers do not define the religion.

The (a) religion defines itself.

......a religion is 'defined' within it own 'religious' texts.

And the false 'religion' of ISLAM also defines itself, within its own foundation texts - the Koran and Hadith.

Reduced to quoting yourself, Yadda? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #207 - May 13^th, 2013 at 8:13pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:19pm:

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

And believers do not define the religion.

The (a) religion defines itself.

......a religion is 'defined' within it own 'religious' texts.

And the false 'religion' of ISLAM also defines itself, within its own foundation texts - the Koran and Hadith.

Reduced to quoting yourself, Yadda? Roll Eyes

It was done just for clarity.

I wanted to 'develop-out' a thought.

[...do you see how child-like i am Brian ? crayons. Roll Eyes

]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #208 - May 13^th, 2013 at 8:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 2:38pm:

Islam is.....what it's believers make it.

Most make it a religion of peace.

Some make it a religion of intolerance and Terrorism. You just blame them all.

Brian_Ross,

How can we come to agreement, if you constantly mis-represent the true circumstances ?

Yadda, if coming to agreement with you means that innocent people must be persecuted, we're never going to "come to agreement." I'm not sorry, either.

You are not the solution. You're just as much the problem as the bigots and intolerant Takfiri Islamists are... Roll Eyes

Brian_Ross,

Such bigotry is based on ignorance and prejudice, not rational thought or understanding.

You and your views are just as much the problem as the ISLAMISTS are.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #209 - May 13^th, 2013 at 8:24pm

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Yadda wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 13^th, 2013 at 2:38pm:

Islam is.....what it's believers make it.

Most make it a religion of peace.

Some make it a religion of intolerance and Terrorism. You just blame them all.

Brian_Ross,

How can we come to agreement, if you constantly mis-represent the true circumstances ?

Yadda, if coming to agreement with you means that innocent people must be persecuted, we're never going to "come to agreement." I'm not sorry, either.

You are not the solution. You're just as much the problem as the bigots and intolerant Takfiri Islamists are... Roll Eyes

Brian_Ross,

Such bigotry is based on ignorance and prejudice, not rational thought or understanding.

You and your views are just as much the problem as the ISLAMISTS are.

As Vince Lombardi once remarked, "show me someone who settles for being second and I'll show you a loser!"

How's the Silver Medal, Yadda? Grin

You're not even original, merely parroting back what has already been said... Roll Eyes

I've know AI programs which can hold a more intelligent conversation than you. Grin

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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