Australian Politics Forum - Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?

Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #315 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #316 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 10:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

I thought Mohammed was the authority behind the Koran. As a matter of fact, the Koran is the Mein Kampf of Mohammed, had he spoken German and not Arabic.
It apologises for and justifies every bloody transgression by Mohammed.

The Koran is the record of Mohammed's struggle (Kampf) to establish his vision as the new religion for the Arabs. As his child wife points out, there's an awful lot of self-justification and excusing in that book.

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Datalife

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #317 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 10:32pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

Wait, what? Why are you asking about authority? Islam has no central authority. Any one can set themselves up as an "authority". All you need is charisma and you can preach whatever interpretation of old religious texts you like, you can even use them to justify murder.

Examples are plentiful.

In your world Bwian is Sheikh Feiz Mohammad an authoritah?

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« Last Edit: Jun 1^st, 2013 at 10:41pm by Datalife »

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #318 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 10:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

Here it is, chapter and verse - it has been done already.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #319 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:00pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

Will Mohammed be an acceptable authority for you?

Koran 8:12

When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #320 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:06pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:55pm:

Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

Firstly 5:33 - your source literally just invented that part in brackets "by beheading".

8:12 - is talking about what angels were going to do in a particular battle

47:4 - again, just inventing stuff - the quote is not "strike off their heads" it is "Strike at their necks" - until they are subdued.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #321 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:26pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:55pm:

Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

Firstly 5:33 - your source literally just invented that part in brackets "by beheading".

Yeah, sure. In Mohammed's time execution used to be by lethal injection or the electric chair. Everyone knows that. Cutting heads off by swords?? Must unusual and, really, quite unheard of.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #322 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:55pm:

Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

8:12 - is talking about what angels were going to do in a particular battle

The black guy who has been going to mosque for 10 years and as a consequence murdered Rigby Lee didn't get the angelic angle.
Being immersed in the Koran for a mere 10 years doesn't get people to your level of understanding. 10 years just turns them into murderers.

We should have government funding for at least 20 years of Koranic study to combat terrorism in the name of Islam. A mere 10 year immersion leads to dangerous misunderstandings.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #323 - Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:38pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:06pm:

47:4 - again, just inventing stuff - the quote is not "strike off their heads" it is "Strike at their necks" - until they are subdued.

And how should you, a Muslim, strike at my neck until I am subdued? No doubt it really meant patting me on the neck with a wet lettuce and that only when you are really cross and stomping your feet has proven ineffective.

Seriously, listen to yourself, Gandy. How much sh!t do you think you can sell people? We know you are full of it, we know it';s a jihad by you to try and convince people -but really, talking utter crap with a staight face like you - you are the Muslim equivalent of the door-to-door Jehovah's Witnesses.
A Jihad's Witness.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #324 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:14am

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 10:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

I thought Mohammed was the authority behind the Koran. As a matter of fact, the Koran is the Mein Kampf of Mohammed, had he spoken German and not Arabic.
It apologises for and justifies every bloody transgression by Mohammed.

The Koran is the record of Mohammed's struggle (Kampf) to establish his vision as the new religion for the Arabs. As his child wife points out, there's an awful lot of self-justification and excusing in that book.

I'll take it then you can't answer the questions, Soren... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #325 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:25am stop being silly Soren - I'm not debating whether or not islam allows beheading according to the hadith. But it is a simple statement of fact that beheadings are not sanctioned - or even mentioned anywhere in the Quran.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #326 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:27am

Datalife wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 9:42am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 8:52am:

The fact that the beheaders do not predominate in the muslim world is testament that the "real" moderate muslims are prevailing.

But the headhackers have impeccable Koranic authority behind them.

Really? Then you should be able to give us chapter and verse, Soren. With of course the authority of the person who gave this to them... Roll Eyes

Wait, what? Why are you asking about authority? Islam has no central authority. Any one can set themselves up as an "authority". All you need is charisma and you can preach whatever interpretation of old religious texts you like, you can even use them to justify murder.

Thank you for providing the explanation I was seeking, DL.

So, what does that suggest about the claim by Soren?

Quote:

Examples are plentiful.

In your world Bwian is Sheikh Feiz Mohammad an authoritah?

Yet, as you, yourself pointed out, "Islam has no central authority. Any one can set themselves up as an "authority". All you need is charisma and you can preach whatever interpretation of old religious texts you like, you can even use them to justify murder." So, why should I or anybody else accept him as an authority on Islam? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #327 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:31am Brian Ross wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:27am: So, why should I or anybody else accept him as an authority on Islam? Great. That's why all muslims fight all other muslims and all non-Muslims - they all have their own islam. Islam is a recipe for complete anarchy and wild interpretation. Thanks.
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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #328 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:37am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:25am:

stop being silly Soren - I'm not debating whether or not islam allows beheading according to the hadith.

But it is a simple statement of fact that beheadings are not sanctioned - or even mentioned anywhere in the Quran.

So why do all those youtube jihadis behead people while baying allahu akhbar?

A misunderstanding? Again? For a religion that prescribes every aspect of behaviour, down to the smallest detail, its followers seem to be falling into error at an alarming rate.

Or you are just full of deceptive shite.

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« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 1:06pm by Soren »

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #329 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:44am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 12:25am:

stop being silly Soren - I'm not debating whether or not islam allows beheading according to the hadith.

But it is a simple statement of fact that beheadings are not sanctioned - or even mentioned anywhere in the Quran.

Of course it is mentioned in the Koran and sanctioned in Islam by no less an authority than Mohammed who ordered the beheading of the Jews who called him a fool.

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