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Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? (Read 61577 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #330 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:03am
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:31am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:27am:
  So, why should I or anybody else accept him as an authority on Islam?   Roll Eyes



Great.
That's why all muslims fight all other muslims and all non-Muslims - they all have their own islam. Islam is a recipe for complete anarchy and wild interpretation.

Thanks.



Remember - no one between the believer and Allah, Soren.

You apparently see this as a problem.  Why?
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #331 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 8:57am
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:44am:
Of course it is mentioned in the Koran


show me

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Datalife
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #332 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 10:15am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:27am:
 
So, why should I or anybody else accept him as an authority on Islam?   Roll Eyes


LOL. You don't.  Others obviously do.  It aint complicated Bwian but its obviously baffling the poo out of you. 

Quote:
This happens every time. Muslim men wearing suits and ties or women wearing stylish headscarves are sent out to reassure the world that these attacks have no place in real Islam, that they are aberrations and corruptions of the true faith.

But then what to make of Omar Bakri? He, too, claims to speak for the true faith, though he was unavailable for cameras in England last week because the Islamist group he founded, Al Muhajiroun, was banned in Britain in 2010. Instead, he talked to the media from Tripoli in Lebanon, where he now lives.

Michael Adebolajo - who was seen on a video at the scene of the Woolwich murder, talking to the camera while displaying his bloody hands and a meat cleaver - was Bakri's student a decade ago. "A quiet man, very shy, asking lots of questions about Islam," Bakri recalled last week. The teacher was impressed to see in the grisly video how far his shy disciple had come, "standing firm, courageous, brave. Not running away".

Bakri also told the press: "The Prophet said an infidel and his killer will not meet in Hell. That's a beautiful saying. May God reward (Adebolajo) for his actions . . . I don't see it as a crime as far as Islam is concerned."

The question requiring an answer at this moment in history is clear: which group of leaders really speaks for Islam. The officially approved spokesmen for the "Muslim community"? Or the manic street preachers of political Islam who indoctrinate, encourage and train the killers - then bless their bloodshed?


Who really speaks for Islam?  by: Ayaan Hirsi Ali From:  The Wall Street Journal  May 29, 2013 12:00AM
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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #333 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 11:58am
 
Soren wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 11:29pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 11:06pm:
Yadda wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 8:55pm:
Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”




8:12 - is talking about what angels were going to do in a particular battle



The black guy who has been going to mosque for 10 years and as a consequence murdered Rigby Lee didn't get the angelic angle.

Being immersed in the Koran for a mere 10 years doesn't get people to your level of understanding. 10 years just turns them into murderers.




soren,

Yes, but gandalf's argument is that the guy mis-interpreted the Koran.

He musta mis-interpreted the Koran, coz, ISLAM is peace.             Tongue

Every 'mainstream' moslem knows that.             Tongue

Honest!








Quote:
We should have government funding for at least 20 years of Koranic study to combat terrorism in the name of Islam. A mere 10 year immersion leads to dangerous misunderstandings.


Shhhhhhhh!

Don't encourage them!!!      Tongue

That is just another vein [to open] on the kuffar corpse, with which the moslems could hurry the bleeding of it - to death.

Predatory.

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« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:05pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #334 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:21pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:25am:
stop being silly Soren - I'm not debating whether or not islam allows beheading according to the hadith.

But it is a simple statement of fact that beheadings are not sanctioned - or even mentioned anywhere in the Quran.



Yes they are.




Quote:
005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,



ISLAMIC texts reveal that moslems almost always beheaded those who were to be 'formally' executed.

Any moslem [today] who reads 5.33 would take it as given, that in 'execution', beheading was sanctioned.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #335 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:27pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:31am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:27am:
  So, why should I or anybody else accept him as an authority on Islam?   Roll Eyes



Great.
That's why all muslims fight all other muslims and all non-Muslims - they all have their own islam.

Islam is a recipe for complete anarchy and wild interpretation.

Thanks.




Maybe Grey should seriously consider converting.

ISLAM sounds as though it is coming, right down his street.          Cheesy          Grin



Why not convert now, Grey, before it 'arrives' ?
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #336 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:21pm:
ISLAMIC texts reveal that moslems almost always beheaded those who were to be 'formally' executed.


What texts? Certainly not the quran.

Yadda wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:21pm:
Any moslem [today] who reads 5.33 would take it as given, that in 'execution', beheading was sanctioned


Quite possibly. But it doesn't change the fact that there is no mention of beheading in the quran - as you and Soren tried to claim.

Your source that added the "by beheading" in 5:33 was just blatantly making stuff up. I think thats important to point out because the islamophobes who see extremists beheading non-muslims desperately want to make it "official" in islamic doctrine - and the quran is the most authoritative text in islam.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #337 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:39pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:31am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:27am:
  So, why should I or anybody else accept him as an authority on Islam?   Roll Eyes



Great.

That's why all muslims fight all other muslims and all non-Muslims - they all have their own islam.

Islam is a recipe for complete anarchy and wild interpretation.

Thanks.





In non-moslems confronting/rejecting moslem proselytising, there is also the argument;

"But i can't follow your ISLAM. Your ISLAM is an abomination to Allah. I'm following the true ISLAM already, thank you.          Now get out of my face, before you force me to behead you, you infidel abomination!"



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #338 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:56pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
Yadda wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:21pm:
ISLAMIC texts reveal that moslems almost always beheaded those who were to be 'formally' executed.


What texts? Certainly not the quran.

Yadda wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:21pm:
Any moslem [today] who reads 5.33 would take it as given, that in 'execution', beheading was sanctioned


Quite possibly. But it doesn't change the fact that there is no mention of beheading in the quran - as you and Soren tried to claim.

Your source that added the "by beheading" in 5:33 was just blatantly making stuff up. I think thats important to point out because the islamophobes who see extremists beheading non-muslims desperately want to make it "official" in islamic doctrine - and the quran is the most authoritative text in islam.





gandalf,

Your claim that, "there is no mention of beheading in the quran", has as much validity, as much credibility, as claiming that, 'there is no sanction to kill those who reject ISLAM, in the Koran'.





gandalf,

Your denial [sophistry above], is no different to abu_rashid claiming that "Raping is not permitted in Islam"

Rape your 'war booty', its OK, say ISLAMIC texts
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251760605/0#0
Quote:
Quote:
And how, as you understand it, the rape of captive women, by moslem men, IS JUSTIFIED WITHIN ISLAM, and is not fornication.


Raping is not permitted in Islam in any case, and I challenge you to produce any Islamic text claiming it is.









see also - more moslem sophistry regarding rape,
Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/10#10



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #339 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:03pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:37am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:25am:
stop being silly Soren - I'm not debating whether or not islam allows beheading according to the hadith.

But it is a simple statement of fact that beheadings are not sanctioned - or even mentioned anywhere in the Quran.


So why do all those youtube jihadis behead people while baying allahu akhbar?

A misunderstanding? Again? For a religion that prescribes every aspect of behaviour, down to the smallest detail, it's followers seem to be falling into error at an alarming rate.


Or you are just full of deceptive shite.





On inspection of the 'item', its a #2, imo.             Grin
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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #340 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 8:57am:
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:44am:
Of course it is mentioned in the Koran


show me



smite their necks (47:4, 8:12) - what the hell does that mean, do you think? In an age when the sword was the main weapon, hitting someone on the neck with a sword means - what exactly?

Execution (5:33) - how did they execute the enemies of Islam if not by beheading, considering that in the same verse there is instruction for hands and feet to be cut off.


If Mohammed is not the example of the Muslim who beheads the enemies of Islam - why is it that in the last decade or so we only see Muslims performing ritual beheadings of non-Muslims? They perform everything, the words, the deeds, the citations, the throat cutting and the beheadings, in a perfectly well-understood ritual. When other Muslims watch these performances they can see in every detail the reference to what has been established as Muslim traditional ritual executions of the enemies of Islam. These ritual killings are rooted in Mohammed's example.



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Yadda
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #341 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:21pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:04pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 8:57am:
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 12:44am:
Of course it is mentioned in the Koran


show me



smite their necks (47:4, 8:12) - what the hell does that mean, do you think? In an age when the sword was the main weapon, hitting someone on the neck with a sword means - what exactly?

Execution (5:33) - how did they execute the enemies of Islam if not by beheading, considering that in the same verse there is instruction for hands and feet to be cut off.


If Mohammed is not the example of the Muslim who beheads the enemies of Islam - why is it that in the last decade or so we only see Muslims performing ritual beheadings of non-Muslims? They perform everything, the words, the deeds, the citations, the throat cutting and the beheadings, in a perfectly well-understood ritual. When other Muslims watch these performances they can see in every detail the reference to what has been established as Muslim traditional ritual executions of the enemies of Islam. These ritual killings are rooted in Mohammed's example.



i
Direct, from the Australian 'mainstream' moslem community.....

It was reported, that her brother liked to watch videos of moslems beheading non-moslems, and now he can't,
...for a very long time.





somewhere on OzPol....
Quote:

If "Violent moslems are lone wolves." then they would be expelled and ostracised by their community.

But these violent criminals are not being expelled and ostracised by their 'righteous' and 'peaceful' community.

They are defended, by the moslem community.

e.g.
"Five Sydney men jailed over terrorism plot"
"The sister for one of the convicted men said...that the sentence is not fair to her community or religion."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/15/2819965.htm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/australia-5-jihadists-motivated-by-intolerant-...


abu viewing osama positively
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304755026/23#23
[quote]

"..The sister for one of the convicted men said...that the sentence is not fair to her community or religion."


It was reported, that her brother liked to watch videos of moslems beheading non-moslems, and now he can't,
...for a very long time.


And it's just not fair!!

Australians laws are so unfair.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #342 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:59pm
 
As surreal as this event may seem, Islamic beheadings are not uncommon in the West, including the U.S. In 2011, a Pakistani-American who helped develop “Bridges TV”—a station “designed to counter negative stereotypes of Muslims”—beheaded his wife.

In Germany in 2012, another Muslim man beheaded his wife in front of their six children—again while hollering “Allahu Akbar.

Beheading non-Muslim “infidels” in the Islamic world is especially commonplace:

In Yemen a “sorceress” was beheaded by the “Supporters of Sharia”;

In Indonesia, three Christian girls on their way to school were beheaded; in Syria last Christmas, U.S.-supported rebels beheaded a Christian man and fed his body to the dogs;

In Africa—Somalia, Tanzania, Mali—Christians are regularly decapitated. (For a comprehensive picture of Christian suffering under Islam, see my new book, “Crucified Again: Exposing Islam’s New War on Christians.”)

Most recently, a disturbing video surfaced from “liberated” Libya of a machete-wielding masked man hacking at the head of a captive—again, to cries of “Allahu Akbar!”
...
In the U.S., where Muslims are less than 1% of the population, London-style attacks are uncommon.  Islamic assertiveness is limited to political activism dedicated to portraying Islam as a “religion of peace,” and sporadic, but clandestine, acts of terror.
In Europe, where Muslims make for much larger minorities, open violence is common. But because they are still a vulnerable minority, Islamic violence is always placed in the context of “grievances,” a word that pacifies Westerners.
With an approximate 10% Muslim population, London’s butchers acted brazenly, yes, but they still invoked grievances. Standing with bloodied hands, the murderer declared: “We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone…. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day.”
Grievances disappear when Muslims become at least 35-40% of a nation and feel capable of waging an all-out jihad, as in Nigeria, where the Muslim-majority north has been terrorizing Christians—bombing hundreds of churches and beheading hundreds of infidels.
Sudan was an earlier paradigm, when the Khartoum government slaughtered millions to cleanse Sudan of Christians and polytheists.  Historically Christian-majority Lebanon plunged into a deadly civil war as the Muslim population grew restive.
Once extremists become the majority, the violence ironically wanes, but that’s because there are fewer infidels to persecute.  And what infidels remain lead paranoid, low-key existences—as dhimmis—always careful to “know their place.”
With an 85% Muslim majority, Egypt is increasingly representative of this paradigm.  Christian Copts are under attack, but not in an all-out jihad.  Rather, under the Muslim Brotherhood their oppression is becoming institutionalized, including through new “blasphemy” laws which have seen many Christians attacked and imprisoned.
Attacks on infidels finally end when Muslims become 100% of the population, as in Saudi Arabia—where all its citizens are Muslim, and churches and other non-Islamic expressions are totally banned.

Such is Islam’s Rule of Numbers.
...


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/05/28/islam-rule-numbers-and-beheading-in-london/#ixzz2V1nFGtkn
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #343 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 2:15pm
 



We all know that last weeks murder of Drummer Rigby was all about Islam, from beginning to end and top to bottom.
No amount of dissembling by Muslims and by the media will change that.

Where is the Muslim backlash against the murderers in the name of Islam?? And not jut the usual platitudes about "jihad has nuffin' to do wiv Islam' - that's just dissembling dishonesty.




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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #344 - Jun 2nd, 2013 at 2:25pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 2nd, 2013 at 1:04pm:
smite their necks (47:4, 8:12) - what the hell does that mean, do you think? In an age when the sword was the main weapon, hitting someone on the neck with a sword means - what exactly?


In battle. Now tell me genius, in the midst of a battle, how practical is it to go around cutting the enemies head off? Soldiers in Muhammad's time wore armour on their body and head. The neck is one the most vulnerable part of the body. So of course when these muslims go into battle (strictly only when they are being attacked, as per the quran), its understood that to kill your enemy, the best way is to go for the neck.

This verse is *NOT* as you so dishonestly imply, the license extremists need to randomly pick non-muslims off the street and lob their heads off.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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