Australian Politics Forum - Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?

polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #360 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 11:51am

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 10:26am:

You, on the other hand, don't. Your only argument is, really, that not all Muslims act as the Koran says they should and as the headhackers always do.

um no.

You haven't been paying much attention to my posting history, evidently.

But that merely reinforces my view that people like you aren't interested in listening to the majority peace loving muslims when they argue for a doctrinal basis for their peaceful/tolerant version of islam.

When the UK islamic council stood up and condemned the recent beheading on doctrinal grounds - Soren wasn't listening.

When the Australian Federation of Islamic Council came out condemning the violent protests in Sydney on doctrinal grounds - Soren wasn't listening

When every day muslims throughout the west extend their hand to their non-muslim neighbours in charity, inter-faith projects, community work etc - and justify it on doctrinal grounds - Soren sees nothing happening.

But get a deranged extremist (mis)quoting the quran to justify his extremism - Soren is suddenly all ears.

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 10:26am:

You, on the other hand, don't. Your only argument is, really, that not all Muslims act as the Koran says they should and as the headhackers always do.

no my argument is that a majority of muslims absolutely *DO* act as the Quran says - and thats why a majority of muslims don't partake, or support violence in the name of islam.

Maybe you should tune more into Yaddas argument - whose entire meme is based on acknowledging the campaign launched by mainstream muslims to present a doctrinally-based peaceful version of islam - and then mock it as propaganda, deceit, pulling the wool over the eyes of the non-muslims, in order to distract from islam's *REAL* mission of conquest, destruction, subjugation - the usual stuff.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #361 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 12:13pm

Meanwhile, another radical cleric banned in UK spoke out in support of Adebolajo.

Omar Bakri Mohammed spoke from Beirut and shockingly said "Under Islam this can be justified, he was not targeting civilians, he was taking on a military man in an operation. To people around here (in the Middle East) he is a hero."

According to the cleric, who now lives in exile in Lebanon, he owned a stall in London which Adebolajo would visit. The pair would talk about the "meaning of life" and Adebolajo began attending open talks and meetings.

In an interview with British media, Bakri said, "God destined for him to carry out the attack and God destined for the British soldier to die for the cause he believed in. Muslims in Lebanon are proud of it."

Are you a Muslim cleric, Gandy?

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #362 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 12:17pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 11:51am: But get a deranged extremist (mis)quoting the quran to justify his extremism - Soren is suddenly all ears. I would be all ears IF you could explain how he misquoted the Koran.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #363 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 1:38pm

Soren, I think it worth repeating a point I made earlier that seems to have flown right over your head:

Soren wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

You subscribe to something that others are witnessing to be a murderous ideology. The monsters who kill in its name back up their deeds with chapter and verse of unalterable Koranic perfection.

to which I replied:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 7:54am:

You subscribe to something that others are witnessing to be a peaceful religion. The majority adherents back up their peaceful/tolerant deeds with chapter and verse of unalterable Koranic perfection.

You use this ridiculous argument that the proof of islam is in the way its adherents behave. A muslim beheading a kufr and citing quranic quotes to justify it is perfect proof of what islam is all about.

The fallacy of this should be obvious: what a minority of extremists do in the name of islam should be overwhelmingly trumped by what the majority of peace-lovers do in the name of islam.

And it is simply untrue to claim that the majority of muslims are only peaceful by quietly ignoring the "true" message of islamic doctrine. Mainstream muslims loudly and proudly invoke islamic doctrine to justify their love for peace and tolerance all the time. You only had to listen to the chorus of condemnations from muslims all over the world in reaction to recent terrorist acts. But of course, Soren was was mysteriously away for that, he only came to the party when a couple of marginal extremists said the opposite.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #364 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

Soren, I think it worth repeating a point I made earlier that seems to have flown right over your head:

Soren wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

You subscribe to something that others are witnessing to be a murderous ideology. The monsters who kill in its name back up their deeds with chapter and verse of unalterable Koranic perfection.

to which I replied:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 7:54am:

You subscribe to something that others are witnessing to be a peaceful religion. The majority adherents back up their peaceful/tolerant deeds with chapter and verse of unalterable Koranic perfection.

You use this ridiculous argument that the proof of islam is in the way its adherents behave. A muslim beheading a kufr and citing quranic quotes to justify it is perfect proof of what islam is all about.

The fallacy of this should be obvious: what a minority of extremists do in the name of islam should be overwhelmingly trumped by what the majority of peace-lovers do in the name of islam.

And it is simply untrue to claim that the majority of muslims are only peaceful by quietly ignoring the "true" message of islamic doctrine. Mainstream muslims loudly and proudly invoke islamic doctrine to justify their love for peace and tolerance all the time. You only had to listen to the chorus of condemnations from muslims all over the world in reaction to recent terrorist acts. But of course, Soren was was mysteriously away for that, he only came to the party when a couple of marginal extremists said the opposite.

I would be all ears IF you could explain how they misquoted the Koran.

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #365 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 11:51am:

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 10:26am:

You, on the other hand, don't. Your only argument is, really, that not all Muslims act as the Koran says they should and as the headhackers always do.

um no.

You haven't been paying much attention to my posting history, evidently.

But that merely reinforces my view that people like you aren't interested in listening to the majority peace loving muslims when they argue for a doctrinal basis for their peaceful/tolerant version of islam.

When the UK islamic council stood up and condemned the recent beheading on doctrinal grounds - Soren wasn't listening.

When the Australian Federation of Islamic Council came out condemning the violent protests in Sydney on doctrinal grounds - Soren wasn't listening

When every day muslims throughout the west extend their hand to their non-muslim neighbours in charity, inter-faith projects, community work etc - and justify it on doctrinal grounds - Soren sees nothing happening.

But get a deranged extremist (mis)quoting the quran to justify his extremism - Soren is suddenly all ears.

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 10:26am:

You, on the other hand, don't. Your only argument is, really, that not all Muslims act as the Koran says they should and as the headhackers always do.

no my argument is that a majority of muslims absolutely *DO* act as the Quran says - and thats why a majority of muslims don't partake, or support violence in the name of islam.

Maybe you should tune more into Yaddas argument - whose entire meme is based on acknowledging the campaign launched by mainstream muslims to present a doctrinally-based peaceful version of islam - and then mock it as propaganda, deceit, pulling the wool over the eyes of the non-muslims, in order to distract from islam's *REAL* mission of conquest, destruction, subjugation - the usual stuff.

BLACK is WHITE, and WHITE is BLACK.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #366 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

Soren, I think it worth repeating a point I made earlier that seems to have flown right over your head:

Soren wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

You subscribe to something that others are witnessing to be a murderous ideology. The monsters who kill in its name back up their deeds with chapter and verse of unalterable Koranic perfection.

to which I replied:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 7:54am:

You subscribe to something that others are witnessing to be a peaceful religion. The majority adherents back up their peaceful/tolerant deeds with chapter and verse of unalterable Koranic perfection.

You use this ridiculous argument that the proof of islam is in the way its adherents behave. A muslim beheading a kufr and citing quranic quotes to justify it is perfect proof of what islam is all about.

The fallacy of this should be obvious: what a minority of extremists do in the name of islam should be overwhelmingly trumped by what the majority of peace-lovers do in the name of islam.

And it is simply untrue to claim that the majority of muslims are only peaceful by quietly ignoring the "true" message of islamic doctrine. Mainstream muslims loudly and proudly invoke islamic doctrine to justify their love for peace and tolerance all the time. You only had to listen to the chorus of condemnations from muslims all over the world in reaction to recent terrorist acts. But of course, Soren was was mysteriously away for that, he only came to the party when a couple of marginal extremists said the opposite.

BLACK is WHITE, and WHITE is BLACK.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #367 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:26pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 11:51am:

Maybe you should tune more into Yaddas argument - whose entire meme is based on acknowledging the campaign launched by mainstream muslims to present a doctrinally-based peaceful version of islam - and then mock it as propaganda, deceit, pulling the wool over the eyes of the non-muslims, in order to distract from islam's *REAL* mission of conquest, destruction, subjugation - the usual stuff.

Yadda is going by Islam's historic form. If Muslims are not deceptive this time, it will be a first time. Honesty and openness is not something people associate with Muslims. (I know, I know, it's the people's fault and not the Muslims'.... yadda, yadda, yadda...) (Oh, and remember, it's not about you. You may be a perfectly honourable and honest Muslims - you just wouldn't be typical.)

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #368 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:27pm

Don't believe the moslem lies and sophistry.

Moslems have been insisting that BLACK is WHITE, and that WHITE is BLACK, since a person called Mohammed, created ISLAM.

e.g.
Moslems insist that Jesus was a moslem too.
And Abraham, and Moses, and King David, etc.

IMAGE....

A moslem advertising campaign [2007] in the UK, promoting British moslems as normal, integrated citizens, who reject extremism;
"PROUD TO BE A.....MOSLEM"

It just makes you proud to be a moslem, doesn't it!

+++

According to gandalf

- the words and phrases that i read, in ISLAM's foundation text [below], the Koran, do not mean what i think that they mean.

According to gandalf

- i am misrepresenting these words and phrases that i read [below], in ISLAM's foundation text, the Koran - and thereby misrepresenting ISLAM and moslems.

What do you think ?

Am i [and many people like me] misrepresenting the words and phrases that i read in ISLAM's foundation text, the Koran ?

And do the Koranic words and phrases [below] declare a tolerant, pluralistic, universal brotherhood of mankind, which is even inclusive of "...those who reject Faith" ?

Is gandalf correct, that ISLAM is really peaceful and tolerant ?

".....reinforces my view that people like [Yadda] aren't interested in listening to the majority peace loving muslims when they argue for a doctrinal basis for their peaceful/tolerant version of islam."

Koran 2.98
Koran 47:8-11
Koran 4.74-76

The content of those three Koran verse groups, together, form a 'virtuous circle'.

Each verse group firstly confirms and then reinforces the ISLAMIC 'religious' paradigm, that;
1/ unbelief [in man] is a serious 'religious' crime, and that,
2/ the 'criminals' [i.e. the 'unbelievers'] deserve every punishment they get, and the 'criminals' are outside of the protection of law, and that,
3/ good moslems have an obligation to, ....'fight in the cause of Allah' , and all good moslems are 'rightly guided' and are justified in their 'crime fighting'.

Those arguments [above] are 'logically' demonstrated...

1/ "...Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." [i.e. 'Unbelief' [in man] is a crime.].
Koran 2.98
[ - - The enemy of moslems is identified. All of 'unbelieving' mankind, are the declared enemy of moslems.]

2/ "...those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47:8-11
[ - - Here, it is clearly stated to every good moslem, that moslem enmity, violence, and warfare, against 'those who reject Faith', is morally justified, and 'lawful'. /sarc off]

3/ "...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76
[ - - Those who reject 'Faith' are ipso facto, 'rightly' deemed, by ISLAM and by Allah, as being innately evil. Therefore those who reject 'Faith', are described as 'oppressors', and are the rightful targets of moslem enmity, violence, and warfare.
...'those who reject Faith' are described [Koran 4.74-76], as 'oppressors' and as, 'the friends of Satan'.]

Once again, the 'theology' which ISLAM inculcates into the psyche of all moslems, is this;...

1/ 'Unbelief' [in man] is a crime.
2/ The 'criminals' have no 'lawful' protection whatsoever.
3/ The crime of 'unbelief' >> must << be punished by good moslems, and the punishment of 'unbelief' is morally justified, because, the 'unbelievers' are in league with evil forces, and they are the oppressors of the people [stated in Koran 4.74-76].

+++

You have to decide for yourself, what truth is.

No one can do that, for you.

And if your response to my question, is that you do not know and do not care, what truth is, then i truly pity you.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #369 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:52pm

gandalf declares that on a doctrinal basis, that the real ISLAM is peaceful and tolerant.

gandalf insists that moslems are being candid and honest, when they declare that;

".....the majority peace loving muslims....argue for a doctrinal basis for their peaceful/tolerant version of islam."

n.b.
THIS, is what the worldwide 'mainstream' moslem community, and its members like gandalf, are telling us about [moslems and] ISLAM....

"......There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts [violence against disbelievers] in our faith."

The muslim council of Britain - the umbrella organisation representing all British muslims:i
from The muslim council of Britain - the umbrella organisation representing all British muslims:

Quote:

Rejecting Terror
Thursday, 11 April 2013

Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewst...
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656iiii

+++

AGAIN;

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - ISLAM'S PROPHET AND ARGUABLY, THE AUTHOR OF ALL OF ISLAM'S THEOLOGY

Allah's Apostle said,

"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."

hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."

hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

AGAIN;

FROM ISLAM'S PRIMARY THEOLOGICAL TEXT

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Google;
how islam divides the world, Dar al-Harb

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? Reply #370 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 10:13pm Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:14pm: I would be all ears IF you could explain how they misquoted the Koran. No you wouldn't. Its all been explained before Soren, a thousand times. You never listened before, why would you now?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #371 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:01am

Allah declares, that his book, makes his message clear.

Allah declares, THAT NOTHING IN THE KORAN IS AMBIGUOUS.

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

012.002
YUSUFALI: We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
PICKTHAL: Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.
SHAKIR: Surely We have revealed it-- an Arabic Quran-- that you may understand.

Dictionary;
perspicuous = =
1 (of an account or representation) clearly expressed and easily understood; lucid.
2 (of a person) expressing things clearly.

013.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.M.R. These are the signs (or verses) of the Book: that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Mim. Ra. These are verses of the Scripture. That which is revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth, but most of mankind believe not.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Mim Ra. These are the verses of the Book; and that which is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.

026.002
YUSUFALI: These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
PICKTHAL: These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

027.001
YUSUFALI: These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear;
PICKTHAL: Ta. Sin. These are revelations of the Qur'an and a Scripture that maketh plain;
SHAKIR: Ta Sin! These are the verses of the Quran and the Book that makes (things) clear

027.002
YUSUFALI: A guide: and glad tidings for the believers,-
PICKTHAL: A guidance and good tidings for believers
SHAKIR: A guidance and good news for the believers,

028.002
YUSUFALI: These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
PICKTHAL: These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

044.002
YUSUFALI: By the Book that makes things clear;-
PICKTHAL: By the Scripture that maketh plain
SHAKIR: I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth).

044.003
YUSUFALI: We sent it down during a Blessed Night: for We (ever) wish to warn (against Evil).
PICKTHAL: Lo! We revealed it on a blessed night - Lo! We are ever warning -
SHAKIR: Surely We revealed it on a blessed night surely We are ever warning--

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 10:13pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 9:14pm:

I would be all ears IF you could explain how they misquoted the Koran.

No you wouldn't. Its all been explained before Soren, a thousand times. You never listened before, why would you now?

gandalf,

Your whole proposition that extremists have misinterpreted the Koran and Hadith offends reason and logic.

Your claim is absurd, gandalf.

How can the words;

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

.....not mean;

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Do the words;

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

......really mean;

"ISLAM is a pluralistic and tolerant faith."

???

And does;

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

......really mean;

"Allah 's Apostle went to the market and bought six zucchinis."

???

+++

gandalf,

Where did you find those magic Koran [Hadith] translation glasses, which transform the words of Allah and Mohammed, into their 'true' meanings ?

Hmmmmm ?

Personally, i cannot imagine that your proposition that the words in the Koran do not mean, what they clearly DO mean, would 'stand up', in a court of law.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #372 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:00am

Yadda:

re quran 9:29:

A useful explanation of 9:29: http://prophetrejectors.wordpress.com/929-at-tauba-of-quran-doesnt-encourage-mus...

key points:
- the payment of Jizya is only permitted in an islamic state. Therefore this verse is not a command to muslims to go beyond the established muslims state and forcibly impose the tax

- All societies make their citizens pay taxes - muslim or non muslim. Enforcement of this payment is pretty normal and accepted

- "fight" is not always a physical/violent thing.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #373 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 10:16am

Quote:

Verse 9:29 of Surah at-tauba is probably the intentionally most misinterpreted verse of the Quran.

This is what it says: -

“Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” S. 9:29 Y. Ali

Dear brother mansour, I totally understand you when you say that this verse promotes violence on a cursory glance. But if you read it carefully you’ll find that it doesn’t. I hope you will be patient enough to be with me throughout the end of this article.

http://prophetrejectors.wordpress.com/929-at-tauba-of-quran-doesnt-encourage-mus...

<------
ROFLOLigandalf says.....
Islamonausea Rising in the West.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1367418236/292#292
Quote:

....muslim behaviour is not defined by what *YOU* think you know what the texts say, its defined by what *MUSLIMS* think they know what the texts say.

gandalf,

Moslem behaviour is not defined by what *YOU* think you know what the ISLAMIC texts say, it is defined by what any rational person that reads those texts, understands those texts mean.

And, IN THE KORAN ITSELF, Allah says that the words in the Koran are clear [perspicuous!!], and therefore those words clear-ly mean, what a rational person understands those texts mean.

as per....

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

Dictionary;
perspicuous = =
1 (of an account or representation) clearly expressed and easily understood; lucid.
2 (of a person) expressing things clearly.

026.002
YUSUFALI: These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
PICKTHAL: These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

+++

WHAT DO THE WORDS OF THE KORAN, MEAN ?

FD says.....
the threats posed by Islam
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1368872008/23#23
Quote:

There is plenty of evidence. You just define it out of existence.

gandalf says.....
the threats posed by Islam
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1368872008/28#28
Quote:

No, the problem is that you lot can't define your own claims. As I keep repeating its your (collective) claim that mainstream muslims have a violent intent, yet whenever you attempt to substantiate this, its either by quoting texts - incorrectly attributing your interpretation of islamic doctrine to muslim's interpretation....

gandalf,

Again, moslem behaviour is not defined by what *YOU* think you know what the ISLAMIC texts say, it is defined by what any rational person that reads those texts, understands those texts mean.

And again, IN THE KORAN ITSELF, Allah says that the words in the Koran are clear [perspicuous!!], and therefore those words clear-ly mean, what a rational person understands those texts mean.

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

Dictionary;
perspicuous = =
1 (of an account or representation) clearly expressed and easily understood; lucid.
2 (of a person) expressing things clearly.

026.002
YUSUFALI: These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
PICKTHAL: These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

gandalf,

Allah is telling me, that in relation to what the words of the Koran convey;

BLACK is BLACK, and WHITE is WHITE.

as per....

"These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) clear."

"Let there be no compulsion in religion:
Truth stands out clear from Error
: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

Koran 2.256

"Fighting those who reject ISLAM." [Koran 9.29], means, ....wait for it;

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

YOU, are in error gandalf. [....OR, you are being deceitful. hmmm, i wonder which ? Grin

]

I read the words of the Koran, and i know what the words of the Koran mean.

And Allah says so too, that i understand what the words of the Koran mean.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #374 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 10:35am

It gets funnier by the minute:"the payment of Jizya is only permitted in an islamic state. Therefore this verse is not a command to muslims to go beyond the established muslims state and forcibly impose the tax"

What a pathetic stupid islamic lie the above is. muslims extract a special tax only where they are in the majority and have the authority to do so.

Could someone tell me how muslims could extract their own special tax from the rest of the citizens, where muslims are in the minority?

Since the qur'an is perfect, do lying muslims think it would be a good idea, if countries who have minority muslims, extract a special *lying islam* tax from muslims, this extra money could be used to counter islamic human rights atrocities (committed in accordance with the qur'an).

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« Last Edit: Jun 6^th, 2013 at 10:44am by moses »

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