Australian Politics Forum - Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?

bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture? Reply #15 - May 12^th, 2013 at 11:54am Whatever causes it will be relevant to discovering if there is treatment & prevention. The main thing is we don't allow a discussion to develop along the line of it's a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated.
Back to top	Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism. IP Logged

The_Barnacle

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6205
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #16 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:03pm

Quote:

What creates Paedophilia, nature or nurture.

Both

Studies show that pretty much all behaviours have a nature component and a nurture component. It is just the percentage of each that varies.

The problem with the Catholic church is that it looks for unmarried men that will have lots of contact with children. It is hardly surprising that Paedophiles are over-represented in this group.

Back to top

The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #17 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:04pm

bogarde73 wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

Whatever causes it will be relevant to discovering if there is treatment & prevention.
The main thing is we don't allow a discussion to develop along the line of it's a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated.

That's doubtful. If anything, paedophilia would be viewed as a mental illness and treated as such.

Back to top

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

IP Logged

KJT1981

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1822

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #18 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:06pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:48am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:07am:

KJT1981 wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:43am:

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:24am:

So we shouldn't trust short, left handed idiots around children?

I didn't know Pansi was short and left handed, the idiot part is common knowledge.

go away troll

SOB

Numberplate is having another low self esteem day, she needs to look in the mirror, or do a little soul searching, there must be something to like.

Yep, there is plenty to like Pansi. Unlike you, everyday of mine is high esteem.

Must suck to be a cranky, hateful old woman like you.

Back to top

IP Logged

KJT1981

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1822

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #19 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:09pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:07am:

KJT1981 wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:43am:

freediver wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 9:24am:

So we shouldn't trust short, left handed idiots around children?

I didn't know Pansi was short and left handed, the idiot part is common knowledge.

go away troll

SOB

Hit a nerve Miss Borg? Are you short and left handed, as I said to Pansi, the idiot part is common knowledge.

Back to top

IP Logged

miketrees

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6490
Gender: male

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #20 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:11pm

Another interesting thread

If you argue that homosexuality is natural and therefore normal (I don't care either way) then perhaps the same case can be made for paedophilia.

It would be interesting to see if paedophillia rates were the same across many population groups, perhaps this shows a common recessive trait.

I cant see any society accepting paedophilia on any
grounds.

If its a natural tendency for them they are going to have some very unhappy lives. (unless they are in one of those many religious cults)

Back to top

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #21 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:34pm

KJT and SOB, please just bugger off, for the rest of our sakes. It's impossible to have a proper discussion with your constant bitching at each other. If you can't refrain, create a different thread (or better yet a sub-board) and go for your lives. Just keep it away from everyone else who couldn't care less what your stupid beef with one another is.

Back to top

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

IP Logged

The_Barnacle

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6205
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #22 - May 12^th, 2013 at 12:59pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

KJT and SOB, please just bugger off, for the rest of our sakes. It's impossible to have a proper discussion with your constant bitching at each other. If you can't refrain, create a different thread (or better yet a sub-board) and go for your lives. Just keep it away from everyone else who couldn't care less what your stupid beef with one another is.

I second that

Back to top

The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10266
Gender: male

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #23 - May 12^th, 2013 at 1:17pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:53am:

____ wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:33am:

Is pedophilia hereditary?The truth is scientists don't know yet, said James Cantor, a psychologist with the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.But, he said, studies show that someone who is sexually attracted to children is biologically different from non-pedophiles."Over the past five years, we've been gaining more and more ... clues that this is the case," said Cantor, one of the few scientists in the country studying the issue.In recent years, researchers have shown pedophiles are three times more likely to be left-handed and are "significantly" shorter than non-pedophiles.Their IQs are typically 10 points below average and they more frequently suffered head injuries as children.By this logic, it would seem nature, rather than nurture, is to blame.

That's hardly logic. Firstly, hereditary means the biological passing of genetic traits from parents to their offspring. Secondly, correlation isn't causation. I'd like to see the research that backs up the dubious claims the Star is making.

The nature vs nurture debate will never be fully resolved - it presents a false dichotomy. In fact, it's hardly even a serious debate anymore because most experts accept that. For a start, behaviour is multiply-determined, which is why it's so difficult to predict. There are always influences that you can't measure. It's very difficult to identify any single psychological attribute or behaviour that can be attributed exclusively to either biological or environmental issues.

Sounds like your psychology degree is going well.

Back to top

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #24 - May 12^th, 2013 at 1:48pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 7:26am:

Maybe a bit of both. It seems that some children that were abused, go on to abuse, much like children raised in abusive households go on to marry or form relationships with abusive partners, not all, but a lot.

I wonder if those that join the clergy do so because they can hide behind the cloak, they are protected to a certain degree, or if they learn that behaviour after joining, the culture of the organisation.....who knows?

There doesn't seem to be any clear evidence as yet, I'm hoping with the Royal Commission into pedophilia within these organisations, more light will shine on the reasons behind the abuse, maybe then steps can be taken to prevent it.

Very good pansi, that maybe the very reason. After all, what other career choice actually 'bans' you from having a girlfriend/partner/spouse??

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #25 - May 12^th, 2013 at 2:37pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 12:04pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

Whatever causes it will be relevant to discovering if there is treatment & prevention.
The main thing is we don't allow a discussion to develop along the line of it's a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated.

That's doubtful. If anything, paedophilia would be viewed as a mental illness and treated as such.

Perhaps, but if it is, it's only as much of a mental illness as people who find err...mature people sexually attractive. That is, IF we wanted to brand anyone with evolutionarily maladaptive sexual tendencies as mentally ill. But I wouldn't expect greens_win to shake up that hornets nest.

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #26 - May 12^th, 2013 at 2:43pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 1:17pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:53am:

____ wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 6:33am:

Is pedophilia hereditary?The truth is scientists don't know yet, said James Cantor, a psychologist with the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.But, he said, studies show that someone who is sexually attracted to children is biologically different from non-pedophiles."Over the past five years, we've been gaining more and more ... clues that this is the case," said Cantor, one of the few scientists in the country studying the issue.In recent years, researchers have shown pedophiles are three times more likely to be left-handed and are "significantly" shorter than non-pedophiles.Their IQs are typically 10 points below average and they more frequently suffered head injuries as children.By this logic, it would seem nature, rather than nurture, is to blame.

That's hardly logic. Firstly, hereditary means the biological passing of genetic traits from parents to their offspring. Secondly, correlation isn't causation. I'd like to see the research that backs up the dubious claims the Star is making.

The nature vs nurture debate will never be fully resolved - it presents a false dichotomy. In fact, it's hardly even a serious debate anymore because most experts accept that. For a start, behaviour is multiply-determined, which is why it's so difficult to predict. There are always influences that you can't measure. It's very difficult to identify any single psychological attribute or behaviour that can be attributed exclusively to either biological or environmental issues.

Sounds like your psychology degree is going well.

It is, MM. I'm really enjoying it.

Back to top

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #27 - May 12^th, 2013 at 2:50pm

The advent of the internet and easily accessible child porn, or porn in general has resulted in an almost exponential rise in the number of pedophiles in western society. There is no doubt in my mind that some such as those who get off on having power over children or mutilating and killing them whilst involved in sexual acts are indeed born that way. However, for those who are atrracted to children in a sexual non violent way, it is a case of nurture. Our society is currently providing the means for these people to reinforce these types of sexual behaviours. We are not providing approproate role models. We can blame the femo nazi brigade partially for this by promoting deliberate gender blurring.

Back to top

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #28 - May 12^th, 2013 at 2:52pm

... wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 12:04pm:

bogarde73 wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

Whatever causes it will be relevant to discovering if there is treatment & prevention.
The main thing is we don't allow a discussion to develop along the line of it's a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated.

That's doubtful. If anything, paedophilia would be viewed as a mental illness and treated as such.

Perhaps, but if it is, it's only as much of a mental illness as people who find err...mature people sexually attractive. That is, IF we wanted to brand anyone with evolutionarily maladaptive sexual tendencies as mentally ill. But I wouldn't expect greens_win to shake up that hornets nest.

Bad analogy. Finding older people sexually attractive and acting on fantasies in a consensual context isn't harming anyone. Preying on children who are aren't yet mentally mature enough to make informed decisions is obviously very different. Perhaps a more fitting analogy would be rape due to its devastating impact on the victim, the fact it is committed without consent and is a crime in our society.

Back to top

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female

Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #29 - May 12^th, 2013 at 2:54pm

ian wrote on May 12^th, 2013 at 2:50pm:

The advent of the internet and easily accessible child porn, or porn in general has resulted in an almost exponential rise in the number of pedophiles in western society. There is no doubt in my mind that some such as those who get off on having power over children or mutilating and killing them whilst involved in sexual acts are indeed born that way. However, for those who are atrracted to children in a sexual non violent way, it is a case of nurture. Our society is currently providing the means for these people to reinforce these types of sexual behaviours. We are not providing approproate role models. We can blame the femo nazi brigade partially for this by promoting deliberate gender blurring.

Gender 'blurring'? How do you relate that to paedophilia?

Back to top

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

IP Logged