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Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture? (Read 8005 times)
ian
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #30 - May 12th, 2013 at 3:05pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:54pm:
ian wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:50pm:
The advent of the internet and easily accessible child porn, or porn in general has resulted in an almost exponential rise in the number of pedophiles in  western society. There is no doubt in my mind that some such as those who get off on having power over children or mutilating and killing them whilst involved in sexual acts are indeed born that way. However, for those who are atrracted to children in a sexual non violent way, it is a case of nurture. Our society is currently providing the means for these people to reinforce these types of sexual behaviours. We are not providing approproate role models. We can blame the femo nazi brigade partially for this by promoting deliberate gender blurring.



Gender 'blurring'? How do you relate that to paedophilia?

Lack of sexual identity.
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Peter Freedman
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #31 - May 12th, 2013 at 3:54pm
 
I would defy any man to claim there aren't times when he sees a nicely built young schoolgirl in the street and has a fleeting thought as to what he would like to do with her. But that's just fantasy.

What encourages a man to rape babies, toddlers and preteens I have no idea. It's said rape is about power, but who wants power over a baby?
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #32 - May 12th, 2013 at 3:57pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:52pm:
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:37pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 12:04pm:
bogarde73 wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 11:54am:
Whatever causes it will be relevant to discovering if there is treatment & prevention.
The main thing is we don't allow a discussion to develop along the line of it's a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated.

That's doubtful. If anything, paedophilia would be viewed as a mental illness and treated as such.



Perhaps, but if it is, it's only as much of a mental illness as people who find err...mature people sexually attractive.  That is, IF we wanted to brand anyone with evolutionarily maladaptive sexual tendencies as mentally ill.  But I wouldn't expect greens_win to shake up that hornets nest. 


Bad analogy. Finding older people sexually attractive and acting on fantasies in a consensual context isn't harming anyone. Preying on children who are aren't yet mentally mature enough to make informed decisions is obviously very different. Perhaps a more fitting analogy would be rape due to its devastating impact on the victim, the fact it is committed without consent and is a crime in our society.


Whether or not harm is caused,  that is not what determines whether it is a "mental illness."
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #33 - May 12th, 2013 at 4:02pm
 
ian wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:50pm:
The advent of the internet and easily accessible child porn, or porn in general has resulted in an almost exponential rise in the number of pedophiles in  western society.


I think the only exponential rise has been the hysteria levels about paedophilia, rather than the incidence of it. 
One could argue that since some other "bogeymen" have become protected species, people have just focused all their contempt towards a more socially acceptable object of hate.
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #34 - May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm
 
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 3:57pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:52pm:
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 2:37pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 12:04pm:
bogarde73 wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 11:54am:
Whatever causes it will be relevant to discovering if there is treatment & prevention.
The main thing is we don't allow a discussion to develop along the line of it's a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated.

That's doubtful. If anything, paedophilia would be viewed as a mental illness and treated as such.



Perhaps, but if it is, it's only as much of a mental illness as people who find err...mature people sexually attractive.  That is, IF we wanted to brand anyone with evolutionarily maladaptive sexual tendencies as mentally ill.  But I wouldn't expect greens_win to shake up that hornets nest. 


Bad analogy. Finding older people sexually attractive and acting on fantasies in a consensual context isn't harming anyone. Preying on children who are aren't yet mentally mature enough to make informed decisions is obviously very different. Perhaps a more fitting analogy would be rape due to its devastating impact on the victim, the fact it is committed without consent and is a crime in our society.


Whether or not harm is caused,  that is not what determines whether it is a "mental illness."



What do you consider determines mental illness.
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Quantum
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #35 - May 12th, 2013 at 5:47pm
 
____ wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
What do you consider determines mental illness.


People who like to stick their dicks where they don't belong. The age of the arse hole receiving the buggering only determines if it is a socially acceptable illness or a criminal one.
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____
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #36 - May 12th, 2013 at 5:52pm
 
Quantum wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
____ wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
What do you consider determines mental illness.


People who like to stick their dicks where they don't belong. The age of the arse hole receiving the buggering only determines if it is a socially acceptable illness or a criminal one.



So how many times did you try it so to come to that conclusion (that it didn't belong)
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #37 - May 12th, 2013 at 5:56pm
 
Quantum wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
____ wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
What do you consider determines mental illness.


People who like to stick their dicks where they don't belong. The age of the arse hole receiving the buggering only determines if it is a socially acceptable illness or a criminal one.



And if you look at it truly objectively, the only place a dick belongs is in the vagina of a nubile female.  So, if they're being put anywhere else - a mouth, an arse, a post menopausal vagina - they're all as "mentally ill" as one another. 
So, if that sounds absurd, what principle differentiates the "mentally ill" paedophiles from the "mentally sound"  arse bandits or granny grabbers?
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #38 - May 12th, 2013 at 11:00pm
 
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
And if you look at it truly objectively, the only place a dick belongs is in the vagina of a nubile female.  So, if they're being put anywhere else - a mouth, an arse, a post menopausal vagina - they're all as "mentally ill" as one another. 
So, if that sounds absurd, what principle differentiates the "mentally ill" paedophiles from the "mentally sound"  arse bandits or granny grabbers?


The "principle" is about whether it is between consenting adults.
Your example seems to infer that any sex that isn't procreational is "mentally ill". This is clearly a ridiculous statement in this age where 99.9% of sex by all people is recreational.

Unless you are a boring missionary position throw back to the Victorian era like RP then what ever happens between consenting adults is fine. That is one of the freedoms of the modern age. If you start forcing yourself on a non consenting adult or a child under the age of consent then that is where the problems start.
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #39 - May 12th, 2013 at 11:27pm
 
In regards to the initial question, I think it's possibly a combination of the two.

In some cases, I'd expect that a "switch" of sorts will be moved towards the dark side by bad nurture of a particular type. In other cases the switch may not exist, but maybe a different type of switch exists which will move somebody towards a different disorder.

Nevertheless, all of our behaviours fall somewhere within the bell curve of humanity, and most of them will be within the "normal" range.
However, none of us will fit the description of being on the peak of average for all counts. That would be very unusual in itself.

If too many people were on the extremities of what is considered "normal", it would obviously impact on what we consider the best chance for survival.
And we only exist in the way we do today because of the behavioural genes which have been passed down through the generations and have somewhat lessened the prevalence of those who aren't good for survival.
Of course it now only takes one barbarian with nuclear weapons to wipe out billions.

It's pretty average for men to not be attracted to children in a sexual way because it's innately felt that this is not helpful to human survival for the reason that young girls aren't equipped physically or mentally to become mothers.
By the same token, it's pretty average for men to feel that they should put their life on the line if needs be for the survival of women and children, as it only takes a few men to repopulate and women are a necessity to raise children. This still holds true today no matter what attitudes about equality dictate.

If we end up killing most of the planet and population through over-survival or a nuclear stuffup, then I suppose a "new normal" will eventually emerge.





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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #40 - May 13th, 2013 at 5:40am
 
Quantum wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
____ wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
What do you consider determines mental illness.


People who like to stick their dicks where they don't belong. The age of the arse hole receiving the buggering only determines if it is a socially acceptable illness or a criminal one.


So screwing underage girls is okay then according to you?

SOB
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #41 - May 13th, 2013 at 5:42am
 
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
Quantum wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
____ wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
What do you consider determines mental illness.


People who like to stick their dicks where they don't belong. The age of the arse hole receiving the buggering only determines if it is a socially acceptable illness or a criminal one.



And if you look at it truly objectively, the only place a dick belongs is in the vagina of a nubile female.  So, if they're being put anywhere else - a mouth, an arse, a post menopausal vagina - they're all as "mentally ill" as one another. 
So, if that sounds absurd, what principle differentiates the "mentally ill" paedophiles from the "mentally sound"  arse bandits or granny grabbers?


So now women past menopause shouldn't have sex? What kind of freak are you? And enjoy your divorce when you get to about 50 or so.

SOB
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #42 - May 13th, 2013 at 8:12am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 11:00pm:
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
And if you look at it truly objectively, the only place a dick belongs is in the vagina of a nubile female.  So, if they're being put anywhere else - a mouth, an arse, a post menopausal vagina - they're all as "mentally ill" as one another. 
So, if that sounds absurd, what principle differentiates the "mentally ill" paedophiles from the "mentally sound"  arse bandits or granny grabbers?


The "principle" is about whether it is between consenting adults.
Your example seems to infer that any sex that isn't procreational is "mentally ill". This is clearly a ridiculous statement in this age where 99.9% of sex by all people is recreational.

Unless you are a boring missionary position throw back to the Victorian era like RP then what ever happens between consenting adults is fine. That is one of the freedoms of the modern age. If you start forcing yourself on a non consenting adult or a child under the age of consent then that is where the problems start.



Just taking the assertion someone else made, and running with it.  Such a silly assertion wasn't it?

But, since we're going there, I should point out that "consent" doesn't determine whether one is mentally ill or not.  Here's  the criteria for classification as a mental illlness - you won't find "consent" in there.
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« Last Edit: May 13th, 2013 at 8:45am by ... »  

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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #43 - May 13th, 2013 at 8:16am
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2013 at 5:42am:
... wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
Quantum wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
____ wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 5:05pm:
What do you consider determines mental illness.


People who like to stick their dicks where they don't belong. The age of the arse hole receiving the buggering only determines if it is a socially acceptable illness or a criminal one.



And if you look at it truly objectively, the only place a dick belongs is in the vagina of a nubile female.  So, if they're being put anywhere else - a mouth, an arse, a post menopausal vagina - they're all as "mentally ill" as one another. 
So, if that sounds absurd, what principle differentiates the "mentally ill" paedophiles from the "mentally sound"  arse bandits or granny grabbers?


So now women past menopause shouldn't have sex? What kind of freak are you? And enjoy your divorce when you get to about 50 or so.

SOB


There are no shoulds or should nots in an objective view.  They are moral judgements which have no place in the sort of scientific analysis which would be required to determine if something was a genuine mental illness.
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Re: Paedophilia, Nature or Nurture?
Reply #44 - May 13th, 2013 at 8:20am
 
Peter Freedman wrote on May 12th, 2013 at 3:54pm:
I would defy any man to claim there aren't times when he sees a nicely built young schoolgirl in the street and has a fleeting thought as to what he would like to do with her. But that's just fantasy.


...


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