Australian Politics Forum - Who will be Treasurer?

aquascoot

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #75 - May 19^th, 2013 at 10:55am

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 10:14am:

Handing out $1,000 cheques to some people but excluding those who paid in the most for the surplus is not both waste and political favouritism?

I beg to differ.

Giving money to people less likely to spend it was going to do nothing to help the economy.

I got nothing and had I been given the payment it would have likely been invested or left in the account for a long time.

Well in my case probably not if it was just money that would have been its fate but in this type of case I would have gone out of my way to spend it appropriately, most wouldn't though.

borrowing money on world money markets (in direct competition with business and therefore disadvantaging business) and giving the money to the losers and wasters and bludgers to spend on cheap chinese made trinkets on ebay and in kmart.

smacking REDICULOUS.

give that money to small business and we'll grow that pie baby. freaking morons these lefties, dont have a clue about anything but bribing brain dead losers with wads of cash. it is lunacy (and deep down you know that DNA) as you seem a reasonably intelligent fellow most of the time Wink

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Socrates Gold Member Offline A Dog With A Bone Posts: 583 Gender:	Re: Who will be Treasurer? Reply #76 - May 19^th, 2013 at 11:02am Yes for the most part I'd agree with that. What do they say about buying your friends......not worth having and that's just what Labor has attempted to do. Sooner or later the truth shines through, unfortunately the consequences in this case is an Australia left by the rats deep in debt.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38632 Gender:	Re: Who will be Treasurer? Reply #77 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:14pm So..... Will it be Hockey, who is obviously out of his depth by far, or Robb...............or who?
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longweekend58

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #78 - May 19^th, 2013 at 8:04pm

buzzanddidj wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 2:50am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 2:09am:

The ( ... Australian) economy is not in an awesome shape that people would have you believe.

We ALL know Howard had a bit of form in being less than forthcoming with the truth - but we doubt that this "talent" now extends to giving a Labor Government any tick of approval in economic management - where any tick of approval is not warranted

Looking at the facts and figures ( ... not to mention a AAA credit rating consensus) he had no other options

THERE HAS been a lot of misinformation around lately regarding the situation Australia currently finds itself in economically.

The fact of the matter is you will struggle to find a country that is more envied for its financial position than Australia.

The Global Financial Crisis that struck in September 2008 with the collapse of Lehman Brothers was the biggest financial shock the world has seen since the Great Depression. Global credit markets froze, global economic growth fell off a cliff, unemployment began to slide and people started losing their homes and the quality of life they were used to.

Through it all Australia remained top of the heap on almost every count.

The Government and the Treasurer have been talking about the attributes we should be proud of, when it comes to our economy, for years.

They are right when they say we have:

■low debt;
■low unemployment;
■AAA credit rating from all three major ratings agencies;
■low inflation; and
■trend growth

Australia’s debt is the second lowest in the OECD. Gross debt stands at 28.9% of GDP.

This compares to Japan at 224%, Greece at 193.2%, Portugal at 133.1%, Italy at 129.6%, Ireland at 127.7%, United States at 113%, France at 108.2%, UK at 110.4%, Canada at 85.5%, Spain at 100.2% and Germany at 86.2%.

We do not have high levels of debt. It is a red herring.

we DO have high levels of debt. in fact it is the largest in our history in dollar terms and very close to the largest in GDP terms. and what is worse is that only a mere 6 years ago we have NO DEBT at all.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #79 - May 19^th, 2013 at 8:07pm

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:30am:

Aussie wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:21am:

Where does the gross debt of 28.9% of GDP come from? I am sure I heard Swann say in his Budget Speech that it was 10/11%

Debt to GDP is different from government debt.

If you look at Andrei's full story he will tell you that Labor inherited a Debt to GDP of 9. something.

You may recall that the conservatives claimed to have paid off the debt. Australias debt to GDP was never zero.

The other conservatives want him to go away with this line as it does not really support the liberals view overall and in fact goes to display one of their real failures and broken promises.

NET DEBT... basically meaning there is more in the bank than there is in debt. At any single time the government is in debt for a whole host of things but in 2007 also had cash reserves in excess of the level of debt.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38632 Gender:	Re: Who will be Treasurer? Reply #80 - May 19^th, 2013 at 8:13pm .....yet Andrei was talking about gross debt as a % of GDP. You now refer to nett debt. I don't believe either of you, but it is telling concerning Mr. Hicks who claims to be an international guru of all things economic.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #81 - May 20^th, 2013 at 8:54am

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:04pm:

We DO have high levels of debt.
In fact it is the largest in our history in dollar terms and very close to the largest in GDP terms. and what is worse is that only a mere 6 years ago we have NO DEBT at all.

Don't pretend to be STUPID
It doesn't BECOME you

Even John Howard is capable of coming clean with the TRUTH - occasionally - and giving
credit, where credit is DUE

Quote:

Former prime minister John Howard gave the economy a big tick
before Treasurer Wayne Swan delivered his sixth budget on Tuesday night.

''And our debt to GDP ratio, the amount of money we owe, to the strength of our economy, is still a lot better than most other countries,'' he said.

He said Australia's economy was better than the economies of Japan, the US and most European countries.

This is in stark contrast to his protege and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's assessment of doom and gloom on Monday
.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/resilient-economy-in-better-shape-t...

Australia’s
GFC stimulus debt
is the second lowest in the OECD.
Gross debt stands at 28.9% of GDP.

This compares to Japan at 224%,
Greece at 193.2%,
Portugal at 133.1%,
Italy at 129.6%,
Ireland at 127.7%,
United States at 113%,
France at 108.2%,
UK at 110.4%,
Canada at 85.5%,
Spain at 100.2%
Germany at 86.2%.

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longweekend58

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #82 - May 20^th, 2013 at 9:01am

Aussie wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:13pm:

.....yet Andrei was talking about gross debt as a % of GDP. You now refer to nett debt.

I don't believe either of you, but it is telling concerning Mr. Hicks who claims to be an international guru of all things economic.

Cheesy

you can find the figures in the treasury statements at each budget and THEY refer to net debt. it is the common methodology for expressing a company's debt position.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #83 - May 20^th, 2013 at 9:03am

buzzanddidj wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 8:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:04pm:

We DO have high levels of debt.
In fact it is the largest in our history in dollar terms and very close to the largest in GDP terms. and what is worse is that only a mere 6 years ago we have NO DEBT at all.

Don't pretend to be STUPID
It doesn't BECOME you

Even John Howard is capable of coming clean with the TRUTH - occasionally - and giving
credit, where credit is DUE

Quote:

Former prime minister John Howard gave the economy a big tick
before Treasurer Wayne Swan delivered his sixth budget on Tuesday night.

''And our debt to GDP ratio, the amount of money we owe, to the strength of our economy, is still a lot better than most other countries,'' he said.

He said Australia's economy was better than the economies of Japan, the US and most European countries.

This is in stark contrast to his protege and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's assessment of doom and gloom on Monday
.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/resilient-economy-in-better-shape-t...

Australia’s
GFC stimulus debt
is the second lowest in the OECD.
Gross debt stands at 28.9% of GDP.

This compares to Japan at 224%,
Greece at 193.2%,
Portugal at 133.1%,
Italy at 129.6%,
Ireland at 127.7%,
United States at 113%,
France at 108.2%,
UK at 110.4%,
Canada at 85.5%,
Spain at 100.2%
Germany at 86.2%.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGeNUmoCQAAGGVT.jpg

you have a poor definition of 'good'. all you need to do to be good is to be better than the mob of scumbags you hang around with. If you hang around with murderers then simply being a rapist makes you look good.

good performance is not RELATIVE, it is ABSOLUTE and BTW we were FIRST in debt position before this useless mob came to power.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Life_goes_on

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #84 - May 20^th, 2013 at 9:37am

Quote:

good performance is not RELATIVE, it is ABSOLUTE

Of course it's relative. Performance is a comparative measure.
You need something to use as a yard stick. In your case, the only yard stick you find acceptable is the previous government's performance - that's not the only valid one. Actually, that's probably the least valid as it ignores changes to outside forces and requires speculation on how that Government would have continued to perform.

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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #85 - May 20^th, 2013 at 9:44am

Australia Gross Debt 2007 - 2013

2007 $58,284,000,000
2008 $60,462,000,000
2009 $101,147,000,000
2010 $147,133,000,000
2011 $191,291,000,000
2012 $233,976,000,000
2013 $254,000,000,000 (projected)

Increase in debt under ALP Government - $195,716,000,000
Increase of 335.8%

Debt to GDP 2007 - 9.7%
Debt to GDP 2013 - 28.9%

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longweekend58

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #86 - May 20^th, 2013 at 9:50am

Life_goes_on wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:37am:

Quote:

good performance is not RELATIVE, it is ABSOLUTE

Of course it's relative. Performance is a comparative measure.
You need something to use as a yard stick. In your case, the only yard stick you find acceptable is the previous government's performance - that's not the only valid one. Actually, that's probably the least valid as it ignores changes to outside forces and requires speculation on how that Government would have continued to perform.

if you want to use relative measurement then you need to be consistent and use relative RATE OF CHANGE. How about you measure the rate of increase in debt rather than the absolute figures??? Then of course you will find that Australia fares very badly having increased its debt at a faster rate than most of the others.

being a lap ahead in a race doesn't say much about you if you were 3 laps ahead earlier.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Life_goes_on

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #87 - May 20^th, 2013 at 10:08am

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:50am:

Life_goes_on wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:37am:

Quote:

good performance is not RELATIVE, it is ABSOLUTE

Of course it's relative. Performance is a comparative measure.
You need something to use as a yard stick. In your case, the only yard stick you find acceptable is the previous government's performance - that's not the only valid one. Actually, that's probably the least valid as it ignores changes to outside forces and requires speculation on how that Government would have continued to perform.

if you want to use relative measurement then you need to be consistent and use relative RATE OF CHANGE. How about you measure the rate of increase in debt rather than the absolute figures??? Then of course you will find that Australia fares very badly having increased its debt at a faster rate than most of the others.

being a lap ahead in a race doesn't say much about you if you were 3 laps ahead earlier.

Consistent? How on earth is using relative rate of change being consistent? Consistent by who?
Again, you're simply cherry picking a measurement which produces a result that fits your viewpoint.
There isn't one simple yard stick you can use that gives an accurate indicator of the performance of a Government. You need to use more than just one.

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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Who will be Treasurer? Reply #88 - May 20^th, 2013 at 10:36am Quote: being a lap ahead in a race doesn't say much about you if you were 3 laps ahead earlier. In a race, the only thing that counts is who is first past the post on that last lap.
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longweekend58

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Re: Who will be Treasurer?
Reply #89 - May 20^th, 2013 at 1:03pm

Life_goes_on wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 10:36am:

Quote:

being a lap ahead in a race doesn't say much about you if you were 3 laps ahead earlier.

In a race, the only thing that counts is who is first past the post on that last lap.

if you are the 4th person in a 4X100 race and you start your leg 50M in front and end it 10M in front you will be viewed by everyone as a loser.

but in this case, swan started the last leg 50M in front of everyone and finished SECOND.

a bad performance all round.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Poll
Question: TREASURER
* This poll has now closed *
SWAN 3 (23.1%) Abbott 0 (0.0%) Turnbull 2 (15.4%) Gillard 0 (0.0%) Angry Anderson 1 (7.7%) Peter Garrett 0 (0.0%) Hockey 7 (53.8%) Bishop 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 13 « Created by: warrigal on: May 18^th, 2013 at 3:46pm »