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Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?. (Read 2978 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #30 - May 18th, 2013 at 5:28pm
 
The difference here is that in good Liberal tradition, any changes to the GST will be taken to an election which is precisely how it should be done if the changes are anything other than minor.  I would prefer a 15% GSt with no exemptions and the removal of all state taxes and levies including payroll tax and stamp duty. there should be a reduction in personal income tax and a small reduction in company tax.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Life_goes_on
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #31 - May 18th, 2013 at 5:32pm
 
The more you earn the better something like the GST is for you - unless of course, you're blowing your entire pay packet each month on goods and services.

It's a tax that's felt more the less income you have.
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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

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longweekend58
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #32 - May 18th, 2013 at 5:38pm
 
Life_goes_on wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 5:32pm:
The more you earn the better something like the GST is for you - unless of course, you're blowing your entire pay packet each month on goods and services.

It's a tax that's felt more the less income you have.


even a cursory understanding of society would tell you that the more you earn, the more you spend. and the more you spend, the more GST you pay. bottom line: the GST is still paid predominantly by middle and upper income earners.
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« Last Edit: May 18th, 2013 at 5:43pm by longweekend58 »  

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #33 - May 18th, 2013 at 5:41pm
 
20% GST
40% top rate of tax

Cut social spending
Cut foreign aid
Slim down unemployment welfare

Would get my vote
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Swagman
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #34 - May 18th, 2013 at 5:47pm
 
Life_goes_on wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 5:32pm:
The more you earn the better something like the GST is for you - unless of course, you're blowing your entire pay packet each month on goods and services.

It's a tax that's felt more the less income you have.


That's the typical argument.  It's bad for the down trodden because (shock horror) they have to make a contribution to the cost of Government.

The more you earn the more you spend and the more GST you pay. 

It also collects tax from the cash economy, from tourists, from drug dealers etc etc.

More tax revenues means people on low incomes and welfare can enjoy better essential Government services such as health education and disability care.

The majority of economies effected by an aging population have some sort of GST.

Finland is a good comparison to Aust.  Cheap high quality universities and universal health care paid for with a VAT of around 24%  Shocked and comparable marginal personal tax rates as Australia.

That STUPID argument about regressiveness has bitten lefties on the arse big time in Australia.  We have forgone 50% additional GST reveues for the last 20 years because of stupid Keating's GST scare campaign in 1993.

What would the health and education and disability care sectors have done with 20 years of 50% more GST revenues huh?????? Sad Sad
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imcrookonit
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #35 - May 18th, 2013 at 6:39pm
 
Labor will not increase GST: Shorten.      Smiley

Date
    May 18, 2013


Bill Shorten has vowed that Labor will keep its hands off the goods and service tax, following revelations that Tony Abbott could include the GST in a review of the tax system if the Coalition is elected.    

The issue is looming as a major battleground in the lead up to September’s election.

Mr Shorten, the Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation, said on Saturday that Labor will not increase the GST.      

He said Labor favoured a mining tax rather than slugging ‘‘mums and dads’’ with a GST increase.      Smiley


‘‘If Tony Abbott was elected he would give money back to the world’s richest mining companies, but he is saying to the mums and dads doing their shopping on a Saturday, ‘I want you to pay more for tax’. These are crazy priorities.      Sad

‘‘The Liberals are saying vote for us, give us a blank cheque, we’ll set up a number of committees and then we will work out different ways for mum and dad to pay more money ...

‘‘I think a mining tax makes more sense than a GST (increase) and I think putting a price on carbon pollution makes more sense than GST.

‘‘Tony Abbott, you do not need to increase the GST, just make sure mining companies pay their fair share. It’s fairly simple.’’

Mr Abbott has said that any changes to the taxation system, including the GST, would be taken to voters before being implemented.

Mr Shorten also attacked the Liberal proposal to delay superannuation increases.

‘‘Superannuation should be a political no go zone, it should be a safe haven and not subject to new taxes.’’

He said that under the Liberal proposal 8.5 million Australians would have less money in their super when they retire.      Sad

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-will-not-increase-gst-shorten-20130518-2jszk.html#ixzz2TdCdSpRX
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Swagman
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #36 - May 18th, 2013 at 6:51pm
 
Quote:
Labor will not increase GST: Shorten.      Smiley

Date
    May 18, 2013


Bill Shorten has vowed that Labor will keep its hands off the goods and service tax, following revelations that Tony Abbott could include the GST in a review of the tax system if the Coalition is elected.    

The issue is looming as a major battleground in the lead up to September’s election.

Mr Shorten, the Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation, said on Saturday that Labor will not increase the GST.      

He said Labor favoured a mining tax rather than slugging ‘‘mums and dads’’ with a GST increase.      Smiley


‘‘If Tony Abbott was elected he would give money back to the world’s richest mining companies, but he is saying to the mums and dads doing their shopping on a Saturday, ‘I want you to pay more for tax’. These are crazy priorities.      Sad

‘‘The Liberals are saying vote for us, give us a blank cheque, we’ll set up a number of committees and then we will work out different ways for mum and dad to pay more money ...

‘‘I think a mining tax makes more sense than a GST (increase) and I think putting a price on carbon pollution makes more sense than GST.

‘‘Tony Abbott, you do not need to increase the GST, just make sure mining companies pay their fair share. It’s fairly simple.’’

Mr Abbott has said that any changes to the taxation system, including the GST, would be taken to voters before being implemented.

Mr Shorten also attacked the Liberal proposal to delay superannuation increases.

‘‘Superannuation should be a political no go zone, it should be a safe haven and not subject to new taxes.’’

He said that under the Liberal proposal 8.5 million Australians would have less money in their super when they retire.      Sad

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-will-not-increase-gst-shorten-20130518-2jszk.html#ixzz2TdCdSpRX


Yes Labor won't increase the GST but they will overspend (indeed have overspent by about $290 Billion dollars in their last 5 budgets)

GST revenues in 2012/13 were $46 billion.

Labor have overspent by 6.3 times the total GST revenue of the 2011/12 financial year.

Australia would have to increase GST by 630% just to repay the debt....... Exclaim   Huh

Justify this Mr Shorten? Angry
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Tsfen
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #37 - May 18th, 2013 at 7:04pm
 
As someone who has worked in taxation and knows a little bit about tax policy, let me share some thoughts.

GST is the most efficient tax that Australia has. What does this mean? For every $1 of GST collected, there is a minimal detriment to GDP. In addition to this, and due to the coverage of GST (being very broad), GST is capable of raising as much if not more than income tax.

Australian Income tax and Company tax rates are roughly the average of the Top20 countries (by GDP) per OECD. We are slightly higher than average, but not by much. These taxes are not horribly inefficient, but could warrant some reduction.

The major problem with GST is that it is a regressive tax. People, rich and poor are affected equally by GST, which essentially makes it less fair on poor people.

This issue can be resolved by affording increases in welfare to the people on the lowest rung of the socioeconomic scale.

The Henry tax review (a few years back) was ultimately a pointless process, because Dr Ken Henry could not investigate GST policy in his analysis. So basically, the largest ever tax review in the last 10+ years ignored the elephant in the room.

The general idea that has been floating around tax circles since circa 2002 has been as follows:

Raise GST to 15-20% over a 5 year period in increments, eliminate inefficient taxes like customs duty and stamp duty completely (these are insanely inefficient and do not provide much revenue anyway), reduce the company tax down to approx.  25-27% and income tax threshold rates down, while creating a new income tax threshold for very high earners.

To address further inequity, increase welfare to soften the blow to working class people. While this might seem like taking away any benefit the GST might have, the point is not to raise more revenue, but rather, to make the revenue raised efficient for GDP.

On top of all this, GST prevents alot of tax avoidance as it is an indirect tax.

So to conclude, less tax schemes, less corporate/individual tax/stamp duty/customs = more economic activity. Welfare offsets regressiveness of increased GST, and increased GST offsets lost revenue from reductions/abolitions of other taxes, and (in theory, a short term hit to revenue and long term balance (once the GDP benefit kicks in).

So basically, this policy is LONG overdue. There is also another tax simplification policy which was an overhaul of the tax system called tax-value method which had consultation in 2006 and was stupidly dumped. That would be another great thing to re-consider.
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #38 - May 18th, 2013 at 7:32pm
 
Well put Tsfen

Tsfen wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 7:04pm:
The major problem with GST is that it is a regressive tax. People, rich and poor are affected equally by GST, which essentially makes it less fair on poor people.


This is the main dissenting point of those that oppose it.  They've got to get over that us and them attitude.

The problem is that those that are viewed as being "the poor" are also the majority and therefore carry lots of political clout.  Politicians want to keep them happy.  They are also the members of society that pay the least amount of tax.

Convincing them to (maybe) pay more is selling ice to the Eskimos stuff.

They can't see past their nose to the benefits that Tsfen has pointed out..... Sad







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aquascoot
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #39 - May 18th, 2013 at 8:04pm
 
Swagman wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 4:47pm:
RightSadFred wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 9:01am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 8:53am:
Australian GST should be increased to 15-20% with an offset reduction in direct taxation.

The economics of that argument have always stood up for me.


Andrei.Hicks

I think you also mean indirect tax too.

The GST is a broad based tax and the theory is about simplification.

Once the overall taxation is simplified, ratcheting up and down a GST will be far more effective.

Politically it was a huge sell getting the GST in in the first place, raising the GST will have a lot of political pain without a great deal of gain, can not see it happening in the near future.



The GST needs to be increased if Govt services are to be maintained or improved.

The burden of 'direct' taxation is falling upon fewer individual taxpayers due to the aging of the population.

One of the main reasons for introducing a broad based GST was to counter the aging of the population.

As the baby boomers retire and lots of them cease paying tax and start collecting welfare there will be less tax payers as a proportion of the population to pay the bills.

Simple, but any increase in the rate of GST will be howled down by the very people that want the unsustainable increases in spending for education health and disability care such as Mr Crook....








yes,  correct.

i'm not sure what mr crook wants.
he sure would be a negative influence on any small business.  probably better the public sector employ him either as a public servant (where he can go on stress leave on full pay for being asked to do 10 minutes overtime)or the public purse can just pay his bills through keeping him on welfare.  a lot of the whinger bludger me me me types are better just being paid to stay right away from the productive parts of society (we cant risk the good workers being poluted) Wink
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aquascoot
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #40 - May 18th, 2013 at 8:09pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
20% GST
40% top rate of tax

Cut social spending
Cut foreign aid
Slim down unemployment welfare

Would get my vote



quite a good formula andrei, might stave off the asian takeover for a few extra years.
still , i think we really need the asian businessman to come in and sort out the awful unproductive mess we have let ourselves become.
learn an asian language and their may be a place for you at the table. 
the asian overlords might spill a few scraps from the table for the bludger welfare class to fight over.
might solve the terrible obesity problem in our poorer suburbs, could be a good thing Wink
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aquascoot
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #41 - May 18th, 2013 at 8:14pm
 
Tsfen wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 7:04pm:
As someone who has worked in taxation and knows a little bit about tax policy, let me share some thoughts.

GST is the most efficient tax that Australia has. What does this mean? For every $1 of GST collected, there is a minimal detriment to GDP. In addition to this, and due to the coverage of GST (being very broad), GST is capable of raising as much if not more than income tax.

Australian Income tax and Company tax rates are roughly the average of the Top20 countries (by GDP) per OECD. We are slightly higher than average, but not by much. These taxes are not horribly inefficient, but could warrant some reduction.

The major problem with GST is that it is a regressive tax. People, rich and poor are affected equally by GST, which essentially makes it less fair on poor people.

This issue can be resolved by affording increases in welfare to the people on the lowest rung of the socioeconomic scale.

The Henry tax review (a few years back) was ultimately a pointless process, because Dr Ken Henry could not investigate GST policy in his analysis. So basically, the largest ever tax review in the last 10+ years ignored the elephant in the room.

The general idea that has been floating around tax circles since circa 2002 has been as follows:

Raise GST to 15-20% over a 5 year period in increments, eliminate inefficient taxes like customs duty and stamp duty completely (these are insanely inefficient and do not provide much revenue anyway), reduce the company tax down to approx.  25-27% and income tax threshold rates down, while creating a new income tax threshold for very high earners.

To address further inequity, increase welfare to soften the blow to working class people. While this might seem like taking away any benefit the GST might have, the point is not to raise more revenue, but rather, to make the revenue raised efficient for GDP.

On top of all this, GST prevents alot of tax avoidance as it is an indirect tax.

So to conclude, less tax schemes, less corporate/individual tax/stamp duty/customs = more economic activity. Welfare offsets regressiveness of increased GST, and increased GST offsets lost revenue from reductions/abolitions of other taxes, and (in theory, a short term hit to revenue and long term balance (once the GDP benefit kicks in).

So basically, this policy is LONG overdue. There is also another tax simplification policy which was an overhaul of the tax system called tax-value method which had consultation in 2006 and was stupidly dumped. That would be another great thing to re-consider.



excellent post and a good read   cheers.

you seem to have a good brain.
any recommendations on cat extermination?
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Dnarever
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #42 - May 18th, 2013 at 9:37pm
 
Swagman wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 5:32pm:
The more you earn the better something like the GST is for you - unless of course, you're blowing your entire pay packet each month on goods and services.

It's a tax that's felt more the less income you have.


That's the typical argument.  It's bad for the down trodden because (shock horror) they have to make a contribution to the cost of Government.

The more you earn the more you spend and the more GST you pay. 

It also collects tax from the cash economy, from tourists, from drug dealers etc etc.

More tax revenues means people on low incomes and welfare can enjoy better essential Government services such as health education and disability care.

The majority of economies effected by an aging population have some sort of GST.

Finland is a good comparison to Aust.  Cheap high quality universities and universal health care paid for with a VAT of around 24%  Shocked and comparable marginal personal tax rates as Australia.

That STUPID argument about regressiveness has bitten lefties on the arse big time in Australia.  We have forgone 50% additional GST reveues for the last 20 years because of stupid Keating's GST scare campaign in 1993.

What would the health and education and disability care sectors have done with 20 years of 50% more GST revenues huh??


Quote:
The more you earn the more you spend and the more GST you pay. 


Not necessarily.

The more you earn also the more choice you have on how you spend.

Certainly the more you invest - GST free and the more you save GST free - the more contract work you are likely to have done (cash in hand) GST free. etc.

While someone on a low wage has no option but to expose almost all their wage to GST people on high wages are exposed to the GST to a lesser extent.
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Swagman
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #43 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:19am
 
Dnarever wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 9:37pm:
Certainly the more you invest - GST free and the more you save GST free - the more contract work you are likely to have done (cash in hand) GST free. etc.
.


Contract cashies are not GST free.  Even if you do a job for cash in hand when you spend that cash you pay GST.  It will be collected one way or another.

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Dnarever
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Re: Mr Abbott Is The GST Back On The Table?.
Reply #44 - May 19th, 2013 at 3:23pm
 
Swagman wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:19am:
Dnarever wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 9:37pm:
Certainly the more you invest - GST free and the more you save GST free - the more contract work you are likely to have done (cash in hand) GST free. etc.
.


Contract cashies are not GST free.  Even if you do a job for cash in hand when you spend that cash you pay GST.  It will be collected one way or another.




So I can tell the government I am not paying any income tax and thay can just take it out of my GST payments????

Same thing, stupid argument.

The government get the GST on the service and they also get the GST on the money spent by the contractor on top.
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