freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:


who says?

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:


where and where?

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:


So from that I think its pretty safe to say you would never acknowledge any peaceful muslim protest condemning offensive publications as anything other than a threat to free speech. Good, lets get that off our chests. There goes about 80 per cent of our discussion.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:


Do explain FD - you just quoted me saying exactly what I claimed. Whats the big hilarity here?

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:


Its all a smacking conspiracy isn't it? Muslims couldn't possibly want to just live normal lives and enjoy the same respect that everyone else gets. No, its all about some imaginary global caliphate, and "biding their time" with sinnister double speak and secretly plotting the demise of our way of life. All muslims are just mindless automatons, waiting - as Yadda put it - to be "activated" to start the great global takeover. Clearly there's no such thing as a muslim who is just a normal human being, with normal desires and concerns. And there certainly could never be a "normal" reaction to being offended - and doing what normal people do when attacked by vilification - ie go out and demonstrate against that vilification peacefully. No, it all has to be part of a "calculated" plot to bring down our democracy.

Really, FD, you're no better than Yadda or Herbert.

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Except of course every other time you have asked me about this. You also suffer from a shortage of examples to offer. The Sydney protests turned violent, and to prevent a repeat Muslim leaders did their best to prevent a Melbourne protest by encouraging Muslims to self censor in the interests of Islam.

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I wouldn't go that far. A conspiracy is supposed to be secret. It is pretty easy to get Muslims to admit their agenda. Even you.

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Of course they do. But let's not change the subject. This is not the same thing as wanting to live with freedom and democracy.

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Like the one Abu insists is inevitable?

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So tell me again why Muslim leaders felt compelled to quash the Melbourne protest? Was it so they could be more "calculated"?

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In the face of Muslims murdering over 200 people in response to the cartoons and murdering over 45 people in response to the video, and hundreds of Muslims marching through Sydney behind banners calling for blasphemers to be beheaded, and even you sending absurdly mixed messages on freedom of speech, I think that is a reasonable request. It is hardly a moral high ground. It is a pretty basic affirmation of freedom of speech and Australian values. If Muslims are going to take the alternative stance - that we do not have the right to offend the profit the way we mock every other religious figure - I think it is best to get that out in the air now so we can sort out our differences. There is no point trying to hide your views. We have ways of finding out the truth.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:


So for once stop being cryptic and tell me. If you support the right of muslims to peacefully condemn offensive cartoons, then thats great. If you don't, then we have a problem. This is not a trick question FD, I'd genuinely like you to spell this one out.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:


Of course it is  Just when I think you can't say anything stupider, you prove me wrong.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:


What is this crap??? Would you prefer they didn't stop it and endorsed more violence? They just can't win can they - allow protests to go, they're damned, try and stop them, and its some sinnister calculated agenda. What is wrong with you? Why can't the Melbourne muslim community be "calculated" in a non-sinnister way, and with good intentions vis-a-vis upholding freedom of speech?



Sprintcyclist wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:35pm:


Name a single such free society in the world (hint- none exist).

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:35pm:


Aussies do not hate muzzies. Aussies are not you and Yadda and Herbert - thank God!!

People like you are the enemy of our democracy - not the vast majority of tolerant and fair minded Australian muslims.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 9:40pm:


Right, good, then we agree 100% on those points. I would like to clarify though what I mean by "peaceful protest" - as it may not have been clearly articulated: for me there is no such thing as a peaceful protest that has people holding a beheading placard. It may not be physically violent, but there is violent intent. I feel like we have been wrestling over this concept without having this point properly cleared up. But let me be crystal clear: when I say "peaceful protest" - I mean peaceful in both actions and intent - and carrying beheading placards is not demonstrating peaceful intent. I apologise if I wasn't clear on this before.

freediver wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 9:40pm:


Yes, I jumped the gun a bit there - criticism should be carte blanche - provided it does not grow into defamation, vilification, intimidation etc.

Soren wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 2:22pm:


Exactly.

Turkey.

Good luck to the demonstrators in Turkey!

They want a secular Turkey as was given them by Kemal Ataturk. In recent years the country has been drifting towards once again being a theocracy ruled by sharia and the mullahs.

Unlike the 'Arab Spring' - these protesters genuinely want a watered-down version of Islam in their country.

My best wishes go to them. I've worked with many immigrant Turks who were my friends.

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2013 at 1:03am:


Evidence....err lets see. Perhaps because one man preaches peace and understanding, even to the point of willingly going to his death.  The other is a violent paedophile who encourages mass murder?