This post is largely a response to earlier discussions with Brian Ross. Rather than constantly explaining that I am not doing all the things he accuses me of (eg attempting to deny democracy and freedom of speech to Muslims), I would like to explain for his benefit, and for the benefit of other newcomers to the forum, why I criticise Islam. I thought this would be obvious from the wiki, but apparently not. The conflicts between Islam and western values are the crux of my criticism of Islam and the threat I think it poses. None of this is about classic terrorism or painting all Muslims as terrorists.

Firstly, some context. Most of the world does not share the freedoms we have. Growing up with these freedoms and never seeing them challenged directly leads many Australians to take them for granted, but they are far more fragile than they appear. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I will focus on three of the more direct threats posed by Islam globally and locally. These largely revolve around freedom of speech, democracy and genocide.

Democracy

Let's start with democracy. Australia still has over 1000 troops deployed in Afghanistan. The Iraq war only concluded (nominally) in 2011. Although the conventional part of these wars lasted for about ten minutes, the occupation lasted for a decade. This is despite the fact that most westerners did not want their troops in either country. The locals did not want us there either. The only reason we had to stick around so long, and inflict such damage, is that people on both sides feared the collapse of the new democratic governments and an even worse situation arising. The reason for such an absurd situation - trying to hand back power to local residents and leave, but not being able to, is because Islam is fundamentally opposed to democracy. There are enough Muslims in these countries who oppose democracy in the most fundamental sense and are willing to kill fellow Muslims, to destroy any chance of democracy without significant military backing.

Throughout the rest of Islam's traditional heartland, the arab spring appears to be a progressive lurch forward, but again there are enough Muslims who reject democracy and freedom to create a significant risk that the current dictatorships will merely be replaced with the correct Islamic flavour of dictatorship.

Globally, millions of people are dying because so many Muslims reject the only mechanism of government that can accommodate the differences of opinions between Muslim sects and between Muslims and non-Muslims. In doing so, they are following the lead of Muhammed.

Freedom of speech

There is a global campaign by Muslims to end freedom of speech by criminalising blasphemy. This is the logical first step in establishing Shariah law, by preventing people from being able to peacefully oppose it, either from within areas dominated by Muslims or from outside.

The pointy end of this campaign are the hundreds of Muslims who marched through Sydney and Melbourne behind banners calling for the beheading of an American who posted a dodgy youtube video mocking Muhammed. It is the death of more than 200 people during protests against cartoons published in a Danish newspaper that mocked Muhammed. It is the attempts, often successful, to assassinate journalists, authors and various critics of Islam.

The thick end of the wedge is attempts by Muslims and Muslim countries to criminalise blasphemy and remove protections on freedom of speech within European countries, the EU parliament, and the UN. America appears to be safe from such attacks on our basic freedoms, but elsewhere the threat is genuine and it is unlikely that Australia would escape unscathed if Europe capitulates.

Freedom of speech is the first basic freedom that we will lose if we do not vigorously stand up to both of these methods of attack. All of our other rights and freedoms will also be lost if we lose this battle. This battle is genuine and it is global, and the outcome is not certain. The way to win of course is to protect our freedom of speech by exercising it at every opportunity. This means not self censoring in the face of threats of physical violence. It means not self censoring out of fear that we will inflame a delicate situation or hurt people's feelings. These are mere tools by the enemy in the battle to destroy your rights and freedoms. If a Muslim feels that they are wrongly associated with efforts to destroy freedom and democracy it is their fault for not doing enough to protect freedom and democracy from fellow Muslims. It is their fault for not being able to make up their own mind whether they support freedom of speech and the right of people to mock Muhammed. It is their fault for not speaking out in defense of freedom of speech against the vulgar displays of hatred by other Muslims. It is their fault for feeling compelled to support efforts to criminalise blasphemy. It is not our fault for failing to walk on eggshells while attempting to protect our freedom of speech by exercising it.

Finally, it means not allowing our freedoms, or the freedoms of other western nations, to be lost in the same process. It means actively encouraging and protecting vulnerable freedoms in other parts of the world that are less fortunate than us to be able to take freedom of speech for granted. It means participating in cultural imperialism. It means recognising that universal human rights are universal, then making them universal.

So, FD, lets get this right?

So, if some Muslims do these things, it makes it OK for you to do these things to other Muslims who are completely unconnected to the first group of Muslims?

You really haven't thought this out, have you?   

~93% of all major wars that have occurred in the past 5 centuries have been instigated by "so called" Christian nations

~91% of unprovoked invasions/attacks of sovereign nations have been carried out by "so called" Christian nations.

And you're worried about Islam?

Chimp_Logic wrote on May 18^th, 2013 at 9:19pm:


That's a big call, have any references we can follow

Goodness me - around 200 idiots shout a few slogans in downtown Sydney, which is immediately and widely condemned by muslims nation wide - and suddenly our way of life is under siege.

The only Australians who are under threat by this hysteria, are muslims themselves. 2% of the population are not likely to overthrow our democracy - but it is very likely this minority will be further victimised and discriminated against by the majority. Especially when we see hysterics like FDs rant here stoking the flames.

Also your kindergarten-level portrayal of the Israel-Palestine conflict is laughable - even by rabid islamophobic pro-Israeli drone standards.

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2013 at 8:13pm:


"Earth to FD, Earth to FD..."

There were *NO* youtube video protests in Melbourne. Those pesky duplicitous muslim leaders took measures to make sure it didn't happen.

This is the second time I've pulled you up on this.

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2013 at 10:29pm:


Its not my push.

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2013 at 9:03pm:



Tell me, if a Christian "slaughters Jews, Christians," does that mean all Christians should be held responsible for their actions?  What about if they, "Assassinating journalists, authors, cartoonists, filmmakers etc?"  What about if they are, "trying to criminalise criticism of myself? Trying to destroy democracy?"

Christians have done all those things.  They do all these things.

Does that mean that all Christians should be held responsible for them?  That Christianity itself, which was used to justify them, more often than not, should be considered the enemy?

I'm interested to know, FD.  'cause I'm trying to prise the lid off that brain of yours and look inside.  At the moment, all I see is a black, seething mass of bigotry and hatred based upon real prejudice.

'cause if you only think Muslims should be treated this way or that their religion is to blame for all the evil things that some Muslims have done, then I'd suggest you really are a bigot.

When are you going to realise that there are good and bad people in every religious group?  Mmm?   

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2013 at 9:32pm:


List the wars that you classify as "muslim" in orgin

Start with last century

(even Hitler was a Christian)