Australian Politics Forum - the threats posed by Islam

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48830 At my desk.	Re: the threats posed by Islam Reply #75 - May 23^rd, 2013 at 8:45pm In the case of the Muhammed cartoons, they refrained from publishing the cartoons.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #76 - May 23^rd, 2013 at 9:42pm

I thought we were talking about the reporting of the Sydney protests:

Quote:

Given the violence in Sydney and outright threats, over something that happened on the other side of the world, the threat of further violence against media outlets or against the Australian public in general was very real. The Australian media was forced to self censor

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #77 - May 23^rd, 2013 at 10:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 23^rd, 2013 at 9:42pm:

I thought we were talking about the reporting of the Sydney protests:

Quote:

Given the violence in Sydney and outright threats, over something that happened on the other side of the world, the threat of further violence against media outlets or against the Australian public in general was very real. The Australian media was forced to self censor

Look at what's happening in Stockholm.
Muslims are rioting and burning cars and rampaging.
Is anyone reporting that they are Muslims? No. At best you get 'immigrants' at worst, 'youths', as if Sven and Axel and their mates were causing all the trouble.

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Brian Ross

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #78 - May 24^th, 2013 at 7:59am

Soren wrote on May 23^rd, 2013 at 10:13pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 23^rd, 2013 at 9:42pm:

I thought we were talking about the reporting of the Sydney protests:

Quote:

Given the violence in Sydney and outright threats, over something that happened on the other side of the world, the threat of further violence against media outlets or against the Australian public in general was very real. The Australian media was forced to self censor

Look at what's happening in Stockholm.
Muslims are rioting and burning cars and rampaging.
Is anyone reporting that they are Muslims? No. At best you get 'immigrants' at worst, 'youths', as if Sven and Axel and their mates were causing all the trouble.

Does it matter?

Perhaps you'd care to quote the Koranic verse which says they should go out and riot and burn cars?

Or mayby it's just that Islam is irrelevant here and its more about their circumstances than their religion? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: the threats posed by Islam Reply #79 - May 24^th, 2013 at 8:01am Prove to me they were muslim Soren. But back on topic, I'm very interested to know what details of the Sydney protests were "censored" by the media. It all seemed pretty graphic to me - Yaddda's got all the photos.
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freediver

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #80 - May 24^th, 2013 at 11:33am

Sorry about the confusion. Earlier we were discussing also the cartoon protests. You presented an article where Muslims thanked the Australian media for not publishing the photos. At the time a least 45 people had been killed by Muslims around the world in response to the cartoons.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1368872008/60

You also presented a text message that did the rounds within the Islamic community (and was later published in the paper) that suggested the proposed Melbourne protests following the youtube video were not cancelled out of support or even respect or tolerance for freedom of speech, but in favour of more "calculated" moves. You did your best to avoid discussing that, merely insisting that my interpretation of it was absurd.

www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1368872008/49#49

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1368872008/43#43

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #81 - May 24^th, 2013 at 12:35pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

Sorry about the confusion. Earlier we were discussing also the cartoon protests. You presented an article where Muslims thanked the Australian media for not publishing the photos. At the time a least 45 people had been killed by Muslims around the world in response to the cartoons.

Ah I see - so it was a case of "thanks for not publishing the photos" *takes sword away from the medias throats*

Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

You also presented a text message that did the rounds within the Islamic community (and was later published in the paper) that suggested the proposed Melbourne protests following the youtube video were not cancelled out of support or even respect or tolerance for freedom of speech, but in favour of more "calculated" moves.

you mean this text?

Quote:

"But we must reply in a calculated and well planned way. WE MUST NOT ENCOURAGE FOOLISH BEHAVIOUR that will lead to a greater harm to the Muslim community. Please BOYCOTT the Melbourne protest on Sunday 23rd September because the Muslim community HAS NOT ORGANIZED IT please spread the word! Salam."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/muslim-community-not-behind-melbourne-rally-20120919-266xk.html#ixzz2UAnpAqDC

You may read into whatever sinnister motives you want, but I don't think anyone with any ounce of objectivity and common sense will see anything untoward in this.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

merely insisting that my interpretation of it was absurd.

It is absurd - as well as baseless.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #82 - May 24^th, 2013 at 3:21pm

Yes that is the text. You left half of it out. I did post it for you when I first brought it up, and posted the link. Here it is again for you:

Quote:

"Muslim community did not organise any rallies in Melbourne ... WE CONDEMN ANY ATTACK AGAINST OUR BELOVED PROPHET MOUHAMMAD (saw) and against ISLAM," it said.

"But we must reply in a calculated and well planned way. WE MUST NOT ENCOURAGE FOOLISH BEHAVIOUR that will lead to a greater harm to the Muslim community. Please BOYCOTT the Melbourne protest on Sunday 23rd September because the Muslim community HAS NOT ORGANIZED IT please spread the word! Salam."

Why is it so absurd to interpret this as a call for Muslims to act in a more calculated and planned way?

Quote:

Ah I see - so it was a case of "thanks for not publishing the photos" *takes sword away from the medias throats*

Like I said, Muslims had already killed 45 people in response. The threat was not imaginary.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #83 - May 24^th, 2013 at 3:34pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Why is it so absurd to interpret this as a call for Muslims to act in a more calculated and planned way?

Its not - where did I say it is?

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Like I said, Muslims had already killed 45 people in response. The threat was not imaginary.

where? Nigeria? Afghanistan? How many people have muslims in Australia killed in a frenzy of islamic rioting? The idea that the Australian media is so cowered by the Australian muslim community that they self censor is absurd. The coverage of the Sydney protests looked pretty graphic and undiluted to me.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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|dev|null

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #84 - May 24^th, 2013 at 3:42pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

Sorry about the confusion. Earlier we were discussing also the cartoon protests. You presented an article where Muslims thanked the Australian media for not publishing the photos. At the time a least 45 people had been killed by Muslims around the world in response to the cartoons.

You also presented a text message that did the rounds within the Islamic community (and was later published in the paper) that suggested the proposed Melbourne protests following the youtube video were not cancelled out of support or even respect or tolerance for freedom of speech, but in favour of more "calculated" moves. You did your best to avoid discussing that, merely insisting that my interpretation of it was absurd.

The Danish newspaper set out to deliberately offend and then acted the "victim" when some Muslims reacted accordingly. They were of course helped by the extremist Imams which set out to be offended and then deliberately reprinted and distributed the cartoons to make sure that loads of their more ignorant fellow Muslims would also be offended.

Of course that in turn allowed the critics of Islam to be suitably offended and they were and provided them with more ammunition to attack Muslims, which is what the Muslim extremists wanted in the first place, to drive more Muslims into their tent.

Everybody has played their role very well. No Oscar winning performances but it was done well enough to provide many with suitable employment. You, of course being one Freediver. I wonder who'd you be hating if there were no Muslims for you to attack? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #85 - May 24^th, 2013 at 4:27pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Why is it so absurd to interpret this as a call for Muslims to act in a more calculated and planned way?

Its not - where did I say it is?

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Like I said, Muslims had already killed 45 people in response. The threat was not imaginary.

where? Nigeria? Afghanistan? How many people have muslims in Australia killed in a frenzy of islamic rioting? The idea that the Australian media is so cowered by the Australian muslim community that they self censor is absurd. The coverage of the Sydney protests looked pretty graphic and undiluted to me.

South Park self censored to avoid having butthurt muslims killing innocent people over a cartoon, they still received death threats.
Molly Norris went into hiding after the FBI advised her to due to death threats from muslims over a drawing.

The youtube video that caused muslims to riot and call for beheading those who insult your prophet (pedophile bastard unworthy human)in Australia was blocked in many Islamic parts of the world, try google and count how many muslim majority countries blocked that perhaps they did not want to deal with butthurt rioting muslims.

Good thread on sharia law at aussie muslims forum here,they obviously dont care our constitution forbids religious laws.
Quote:

We do need to promote and make propaganda for shariah,just not in a manner devoid of hikmah (wisdom).
www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/showpost.php?p=484299&postcount=33

Gandalf,why do muslims need to make propaganda for shariah law, are they afraid we might not like the truth?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #86 - May 24^th, 2013 at 5:36pm

Quote:

Its not - where did I say it is?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 22^nd, 2013 at 9:19am:

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 8:57pm:

Because it suggests that they oppose freedom of speech and that they did not abandon the protest out of respect for freedom of speech, but because they wanted to be more "calculated and planned" in the way they undermine freedom of speech.

Baseless. And absurd.

Quote:

where? Nigeria? Afghanistan? How many people have muslims in Australia killed in a frenzy of islamic rioting? The idea that the Australian media is so cowered by the Australian muslim community that they self censor is absurd. The coverage of the Sydney protests looked pretty graphic and undiluted to me.

Muslims don't go nuts over footage of Muslims going nuts. They go nuts over blasphemy. The Muslim community would not try to suppress footage of the riots. That would defeat the purpose of rioting. But they would put pressure on media outlets not to publish the Muhammed cartoons or show the video. I would even go so far as to suggest they would use calculated and planned methods to do so. At least tome would. Some would go with vulgar displays of violence. Whatever works.

Quote:

The Danish newspaper set out to deliberately offend and then acted the "victim" when some Muslims reacted accordingly.

No-one has the right not to be offended. Attempting to blame the uncivilised response of Muslims on anyone but the Muslims themselves demonstrates a fundamental lack of awareness of what freedom of speech means and of western values. We should not feel obligued to abandon freedom of speech just because Muslims cannot control themselves. Rather, we need to make all the more effort to stand up for freedom of speech.

Quote:

Of course that in turn allowed the critics of Islam to be suitably offended and they were and provided them with more ammunition to attack Muslims, which is what the Muslim extremists wanted in the first place, to drive more Muslims into their tent.

Did it ever occur to you that there are bigger issues at play here?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #87 - May 24^th, 2013 at 6:33pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

gandalf wrote on May 22nd, 2013 at 9:19am:
freediver wrote on May 21st, 2013 at 8:57pm:
Because it suggests that they oppose freedom of speech and that they did not abandon the protest out of respect for freedom of speech, but because they wanted to be more "calculated and planned" in the way they undermine freedom of speech.

Baseless. And absurd.

err yes and? I asked you to point out where I said its "absurd to interpret this as a call for Muslims to act in a more calculated and planned way?". What I said was absurd was your conspiracy theories about muslims being "calculated" as a sinister means to better undermine free speech. For anyone else, being "calculated" in this respect merely means to exercise their right to express their view in a more constructive and effective way. Perfectly reasonable, and perfectly pro-free speech.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

Muslims don't go nuts over footage of Muslims going nuts.

That is correct - but you really should have thought through your previous claim a little better:

Quote:

Why else would the Australian media have refrained from reporting fully on what was a very newsworthy event? Muslims kill journalists. That is the pointy end of the campaign. Given the violence in Sydney and outright threats, over something that happened on the other side of the world, the threat of further violence against media outlets or against the Australian public in general was very real. The Australian media was forced to self censor

Key part highlighted to illustrate you were definitely talking about the Sydney riot. So I'm wondering, if you were not talking about the coverage of the riot, what did the Australian media "self censor" over?

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

But they would put pressure on media outlets not to publish the Muhammed cartoons or show the video.

From where I come from thats called a completely baseless - and therefore absurd claim.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

I would even go so far as to suggest they would use calculated and planned methods to do so.

Very good FD - why stop at one baseless and absurd claim? - Might as well go even further and use it is a basis for an even more absurd claim. Smiley

Lets be truthful here - there is no evidence the Australian media was cowered by the muslims into self censoring - you just made that up.

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« Last Edit: May 24^th, 2013 at 6:43pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #88 - May 24^th, 2013 at 7:33pm

Quote:

For anyone else, being "calculated" in this respect merely means to exercise their right to express their view in a more constructive and effective way. Perfectly reasonable, and perfectly pro-free speech.

Except that nothing coming from muslims indicates they are pro free speech. One the one had we have over 45 people murdered by Muslims in response to the Muhammed cartoons. We have over 200 murdered in response to the youtube videos. We have efforts by Muslims to criminalise blasphemy in European countries, the Eu, the UN etc. We have Rushdie et al. We have Muslims marching through Sydney with banners calling for people to be beheaded. We have Muslims right here on this forum explaining the Islamic basis for the death penalty for blasphemy. On the other hand we have... nothing. Except of course Gandalf's word that the Muslim community supports freedom of speech "in principle" - a concept he refuses to elaborate on.

Quote:

Key part highlighted to illustrate you were definitely talking about the Sydney riot. So I'm wondering, if you were not talking about the coverage of the riot, what did the Australian media "self censor" over?

Asked and answered. They did not publish the Muhammed cartoons and the Muslims thanked them for it - according to your own evidence. I am not aware of TV stations airing the video either, despite it being the cause of violent riots in Australia. Though that may be more a case of boredom and limited airtime, and it is hard to put a video in a newspaper.

Quote:

Lets be truthful here - there is no evidence the Australian media was cowered by the muslims into self censoring - you just made that up.

So the fact that they self censored in response to vulgar displays of hostility and aggression is not actually evidence that that self censored in response to vulgar displays of hostility and aggression? Or do you think the Muhammed cartoons are somehow not newsworthy? Or that our newspapers have always refused to publish things that religious people take offence to?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: the threats posed by Islam
Reply #89 - May 24^th, 2013 at 8:29pm

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

Except that nothing coming from muslims indicates they are pro free speech. One the one had we have over 45 people murdered by Muslims in response to the Muhammed cartoons. We have over 200 murdered in response to the youtube videos. We have efforts by Muslims to criminalise blasphemy in European countries, the Eu, the UN etc. We have Rushdie et al. We have Muslims marching through Sydney with banners calling for people to be beheaded. We have Muslims right here on this forum explaining the Islamic basis for the death penalty for blasphemy.

So here I am trying to pin you down on what *AUSTRALIAN* muslims have done to deserve your suspicion, and you answer by citing things that mostly happened outside Australia. The sum total of negative behaviour by Australian muslims is a single and tiny incident, which was immediately condemned by the muslim community. Again, how many people have been killed as a result of *AUSTRALIAN* muslim rioting and carrying on? I'll give you a hint - its less than one.

So in light of this, do you think its fair to distinguish between what extremists around the world do and what Australian muslims do?

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

Asked and answered. They did not publish the Muhammed cartoons and the Muslims thanked them for it - according to your own evidence.

Urgh what is wrong with you?? Would you like me to quote for you again that you were talking about the Sydney protests 2012, and not the Sydney protests 2006? OK here you go:

Quote:

Given the violence in Sydney and outright threats, over something that happened on the other side of the world, the threat of further violence against media outlets or against the Australian public in general was very real. The Australian media was forced to self censor

Are you unable to comprehend your own rants? Now go back and answer my question please - where did the Australian media self censor in response to the protests of Sydney 2012 as you just claimed? Or if you are unable to do so, I'll be happy for you to concede the point - and concede that you, once again, just blatantly made sh!t up specifically in order to defame muslims.

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

Or that our newspapers have always refused to publish things that religious people take offence to?

What sort of idiotic statement is that?? Newspapers refuse to publish stuff all the freaking time - very often because they might be deemed offensive to religious people. Is it always because that religious group has threatened and intimidated the newspapers into self-censoring? Of course not - what a ridiculous notion.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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