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The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People. (Read 6679 times)
progressiveslol
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #60 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am  
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:12am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:53am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:50am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:42am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:36am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:29am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:23am:
KJT1981 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 9:59am:
Progs, Phil grew up in a house full of women after his father took off.

That's why he acts like a girl.



Gone to stage 2 so obviously you can't refute his argument.

There was no argument. Just BS rhetoric with zero substance on the figures.


I agree.....You have been unable to refute any argument I have made with anything apart from your own opinion.....Just BS rhetoric with zero substance on the figures!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
William G. McAdoo (1863 - 1941)

It is not BS that labor over estimated their future revenue. The revenue is actually up, not down and there is new spending to which they could have held back for better times.

It doesn't matter how you would like to spin it. A surplus was very doable even for a half competent govern, yet labor, the most incompetent get the surplus to a $20 billion deficit.

Bloody hopeless and unforgivable.


Revenue was down on projections.....Do you understand anything about forward estimates.....Treasury provides Government with estimates which Government then use to balance the budget over that period.....Revenue was down on those forward estimates......Just as treasury got it wrong during the Howard years when revenue was underestimated bringing in more than was predicted.....At least you gave it a go but you do not understand economics and the way the system works!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.
Pierre Beaumarchais (1732 - 1799)

I am glad to see your answer agrees that a surplus was doable but labor over spent, not taking in risk factors on forward estimates.

How many large deficits is it now against forward estimates not having proper risk factors taken into account? What was the largest for labor no risk factor budget. $40 billion wasn't it?

Hopeless. You should or must work for labor. In fact, you may even be swan's advisor.

We are all so glad you are so smart in this area.


What you fail to understand is the stimulus prevented Australia from going into recession and saved 200 000 jobs.....If Australia had not stimulated the economy we would be is a far worse position than we are now......This is confirmed by the IMF and Independent economists who have no vested interest in talking down the Australian economy.....Australia has also been given a AAA credit rating by rating agencies for the first time in our history.....The facts do not support your rhetoric.....Feel free to dispute my argument with independent analysis.....I am prepared to accept any informed argument supported by independent sources!!!

Huh Huh Huh

I have already told you that I am concentrating on after the stimulus. The stimulus is a whole other debate....
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #61 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am  
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:49am:
The ALP's spending is all "GREEK" to me.

There comes a time where we have to become "AUSTRALIAN" again.

I'd much rather see cuts to spending and pay high taxes now under the LIB's, than pay no tax under the ALP in a recession if not depression in the next few years.



Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


That depends on who's dinner table you are sitting at...........FACT
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progressiveslol
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #62 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:18am  
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:49am:
The ALP's spending is all "GREEK" to me.

There comes a time where we have to become "AUSTRALIAN" again.

I'd much rather see cuts to spending and pay high taxes now under the LIB's, than pay no tax under the ALP in a recession if not depression in the next few years.



Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


That depends on who's dinner table you are sitting at...........FACT

Looks like Dnarever has been sitting at the little girls tea party table for discussion.
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philperth2010
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #63 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:21am  
Swagman wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:04am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


Low debt and the Costello banking reforms were why Australia avoided the worst of the GFC.

Labor's future tax increases (AKA 'stimulus') did next to effall.

The only FACT concerning Labor is that its attack on the mining industry wound up the mining boom much quicker than its own analysts predicted.... Grin


Unless you can post an Independent analysis to support your claim you have nothing.....If you claim you are correct prove it with something other than your own opinion!!!

Huh Huh Huh
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
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Makka
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #64 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:30am  
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:21am:
Swagman wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:04am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


Low debt and the Costello banking reforms were why Australia avoided the worst of the GFC.

Labor's future tax increases (AKA 'stimulus') did next to effall.

The only FACT concerning Labor is that its attack on the mining industry wound up the mining boom much quicker than its own analysts predicted.... Grin


Unless you can post an Independent analysis to support your claim you have nothing.....If you claim you are correct prove it with something other than your own opinion!!!

Huh Huh Huh



What did you think the GFC was about if it was not about the Banking system phil?

Remember Swan stood on the international stage pontificating the greatness of our Banking and Corporate System

The Corporations Act 2001

Notice the year??!!
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philperth2010
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #65 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:31am  
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:12am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:53am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:50am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:42am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:36am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:29am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:23am:
KJT1981 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 9:59am:
Progs, Phil grew up in a house full of women after his father took off.

That's why he acts like a girl.



Gone to stage 2 so obviously you can't refute his argument.

There was no argument. Just BS rhetoric with zero substance on the figures.


I agree.....You have been unable to refute any argument I have made with anything apart from your own opinion.....Just BS rhetoric with zero substance on the figures!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
William G. McAdoo (1863 - 1941)

It is not BS that labor over estimated their future revenue. The revenue is actually up, not down and there is new spending to which they could have held back for better times.

It doesn't matter how you would like to spin it. A surplus was very doable even for a half competent govern, yet labor, the most incompetent get the surplus to a $20 billion deficit.

Bloody hopeless and unforgivable.


Revenue was down on projections.....Do you understand anything about forward estimates.....Treasury provides Government with estimates which Government then use to balance the budget over that period.....Revenue was down on those forward estimates......Just as treasury got it wrong during the Howard years when revenue was underestimated bringing in more than was predicted.....At least you gave it a go but you do not understand economics and the way the system works!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.
Pierre Beaumarchais (1732 - 1799)

I am glad to see your answer agrees that a surplus was doable but labor over spent, not taking in risk factors on forward estimates.

How many large deficits is it now against forward estimates not having proper risk factors taken into account? What was the largest for labor no risk factor budget. $40 billion wasn't it?

Hopeless. You should or must work for labor. In fact, you may even be swan's advisor.

We are all so glad you are so smart in this area.


What you fail to understand is the stimulus prevented Australia from going into recession and saved 200 000 jobs.....If Australia had not stimulated the economy we would be is a far worse position than we are now......This is confirmed by the IMF and Independent economists who have no vested interest in talking down the Australian economy.....Australia has also been given a AAA credit rating by rating agencies for the first time in our history.....The facts do not support your rhetoric.....Feel free to dispute my argument with independent analysis.....I am prepared to accept any informed argument supported by independent sources!!!

Huh Huh Huh

I have already told you that I am concentrating on after the stimulus. The stimulus is a whole other debate....


Cutting spending can still see Australia go into recession.....When the private sector is in a downturn the Government needs to support the economy to avoid an even greater downturn that will cause even less revenue being collected....Australia needs to ease out of the downturn and ensure the least adverse impact on our economy due to needless Austerity.....Australia needs to take advantage of our economic position not pander to Tony Abbott scare campaign that will see thousands of Australians lose there job trying to chase a surplus....Australia can easily handle our modest debt and now is not the time to chase a surplus.....Support jobs and growth whilst our competitors are still in recession.....To cut spending now will see us fall back to the pack!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #66 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:33am  
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:31am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:12am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:53am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:50am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:42am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:36am:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:29am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:23am:
KJT1981 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 9:59am:
Progs, Phil grew up in a house full of women after his father took off.

That's why he acts like a girl.



Gone to stage 2 so obviously you can't refute his argument.

There was no argument. Just BS rhetoric with zero substance on the figures.


I agree.....You have been unable to refute any argument I have made with anything apart from your own opinion.....Just BS rhetoric with zero substance on the figures!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
William G. McAdoo (1863 - 1941)

It is not BS that labor over estimated their future revenue. The revenue is actually up, not down and there is new spending to which they could have held back for better times.

It doesn't matter how you would like to spin it. A surplus was very doable even for a half competent govern, yet labor, the most incompetent get the surplus to a $20 billion deficit.

Bloody hopeless and unforgivable.


Revenue was down on projections.....Do you understand anything about forward estimates.....Treasury provides Government with estimates which Government then use to balance the budget over that period.....Revenue was down on those forward estimates......Just as treasury got it wrong during the Howard years when revenue was underestimated bringing in more than was predicted.....At least you gave it a go but you do not understand economics and the way the system works!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.
Pierre Beaumarchais (1732 - 1799)

I am glad to see your answer agrees that a surplus was doable but labor over spent, not taking in risk factors on forward estimates.

How many large deficits is it now against forward estimates not having proper risk factors taken into account? What was the largest for labor no risk factor budget. $40 billion wasn't it?

Hopeless. You should or must work for labor. In fact, you may even be swan's advisor.

We are all so glad you are so smart in this area.


What you fail to understand is the stimulus prevented Australia from going into recession and saved 200 000 jobs.....If Australia had not stimulated the economy we would be is a far worse position than we are now......This is confirmed by the IMF and Independent economists who have no vested interest in talking down the Australian economy.....Australia has also been given a AAA credit rating by rating agencies for the first time in our history.....The facts do not support your rhetoric.....Feel free to dispute my argument with independent analysis.....I am prepared to accept any informed argument supported by independent sources!!!

Huh Huh Huh

I have already told you that I am concentrating on after the stimulus. The stimulus is a whole other debate....


Cutting spending can still see Australia go into recession.....When the private sector is in a downturn the Government needs to support the economy to avoid an even greater downturn that will cause even less revenue being collected....Australia needs to ease out of the downturn and ensure the least adverse impact on our economy due to needless Austerity.....Australia needs to take advantage of our economic position not pander to Tony Abbott scare campaign that will see thousands of Australians lose there job trying to chase a surplus....Australia can easily handle our modest debt and now is not the time to chase a surplus.....Support jobs and growth whilst our competitors are still in recession.....To cut spending now will see us fall back to the pack!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

We are talking about what labor have said, what labor wanted, what labor actually delivered, not your opinion.

Labor said, it is a responsible position to have a surplus. They said 300 times "we promise that surplus". They wanted a surplus (all the former to that affect). They had revenue grow. They didn't factor in proper risks to the forward estimates. They failed and history shows they are economic illiterates and economic vandals.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #67 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:36am  
Yet how come the Government don't seem to be spending any money on the middle incomes Phil?

As usual they are all about spending on the losers aren't they?
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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philperth2010
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #68 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:42am  
Makka wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:30am:
philperth2010 wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:21am:
Swagman wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:04am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


Low debt and the Costello banking reforms were why Australia avoided the worst of the GFC.

Labor's future tax increases (AKA 'stimulus') did next to effall.

The only FACT concerning Labor is that its attack on the mining industry wound up the mining boom much quicker than its own analysts predicted.... Grin


Unless you can post an Independent analysis to support your claim you have nothing.....If you claim you are correct prove it with something other than your own opinion!!!

Huh Huh Huh



What did you think the GFC was about if it was not about the Banking system phil?

Remember Swan stood on the international stage pontificating the greatness of our Banking and Corporate System

The Corporations Act 2001

Notice the year??!!


Costello was not completely useless however he was far from perfect....He sold off our gold assets at bargain basement prices and lost billions in the process.....He sold off assets that returned revenue to the Government and created private monopolies that are now reluctant to allow competition a level playing field.....There where many reasons Australia survived the GFC including not having a massive debt.....However the stimulus and reluctance of the ALP to submit to Austerity have proven to be a formula for success.....The facts do not support an argument that our resilience to the GFC was all due to Costello!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Hawke / Keating was responsible for floating the Aus $ and reforming the Labour market with productivity gains linked to Labour reform!!!

From the Australian.....

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/consensus-between-government-...
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
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philperth2010
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #69 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:48am  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:36am:
Yet how come the Government don't seem to be spending any money on the middle incomes Phil?

As usual they are all about spending on the losers aren't they?


So in your opinion the more people in poverty the better.....The best way to lift the living standards of ALL Australian's is to support those on the lowest rung of the ladder to promote a society where everyone has a chance to succeed.....Your formula is about increasing the gap between rich and poor - The haves and have nots.....True class warfare in its lowest form.....Your argument is all about it is mine and I want it all.....I have no problem helping those less fortunate to make my future more secure!!!
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #70 - May 19th, 2013 at 11:57am  
Class warfare?

Phil my father is as working class as you'll find.

He comes from an estate where half of his class are most likely dead by now.

You can't take the class warfare route with me mate.

However, I am a 100% supporter of helping those who help themselves and also rewarding those who put into the country.

Labor have always seemed to me to be about helping deadbeats and sod the middle incomes - who if we are honest drive Australia forward.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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philperth2010
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #71 - May 19th, 2013 at 12:07pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:57am:
Class warfare?

Phil my father is as working class as you'll find.

He comes from an estate where half of his class are most likely dead by now.

You can't take the class warfare route with me mate.

However, I am a 100% supporter of helping those who help themselves and also rewarding those who put into the country.

Labor have always seemed to me to be about helping deadbeats and sod the middle incomes - who if we are honest drive Australia forward.


Yet you call low income earners losers.....China has an emerging middle class that is driving their growth.....Where do you think this new middle class is coming from Andre.....The gutter???

Angry Angry Angry
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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RightSadFred
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #72 - May 19th, 2013 at 12:16pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:57am:
Class warfare?

Phil my father is as working class as you'll find.

He comes from an estate where half of his class are most likely dead by now.

You can't take the class warfare route with me mate.

However, I am a 100% supporter of helping those who help themselves and also rewarding those who put into the country.

Labor have always seemed to me to be about helping deadbeats and sod the middle incomes - who if we are honest drive Australia forward.


Andrei.Hicks

I grew up in a working class area, my father was a carpenter by trade, went to public school and I worked many part time jobs to get through uni.

Quote:
However, I am a 100% supporter of helping those who help themselves and also rewarding those who put into the country.


I would add helping those who can't, but the those vast majority of lazy ar$e abled bodied welfare recipients not doing charity work ..... could not care less.
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Dnarever
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #73 - May 19th, 2013 at 3:11pm  
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:18am:
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:49am:
The ALP's spending is all "GREEK" to me.

There comes a time where we have to become "AUSTRALIAN" again.

I'd much rather see cuts to spending and pay high taxes now under the LIB's, than pay no tax under the ALP in a recession if not depression in the next few years.



Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


That depends on who's dinner table you are sitting at...........FACT

Looks like Dnarever has been sitting at the little girls tea party table for discussion.


I don't know about that, I would think an economy led by the Hockey Abbott clown show going in with about $100 Billion of additional unfunded spending would be easily the best chance to drive a recession we have ever had, certainly no chance of producing a surplus.
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progressiveslol
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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #74 - May 19th, 2013 at 3:46pm  
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 3:11pm:
progressiveslol wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:18am:
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 11:15am:
Dnarever wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:57am:
De-registered User wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:49am:
The ALP's spending is all "GREEK" to me.

There comes a time where we have to become "AUSTRALIAN" again.

I'd much rather see cuts to spending and pay high taxes now under the LIB's, than pay no tax under the ALP in a recession if not depression in the next few years.



Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).


That depends on who's dinner table you are sitting at...........FACT

Looks like Dnarever has been sitting at the little girls tea party table for discussion.


I don't know about that, I would think an economy led by the Hockey Abbott clown show going in with about $100 Billion of additional unfunded spending would be easily the best chance to drive a recession we have ever had, certainly no chance of producing a surplus.

Either has labor while promising it 300 times. So you are screwed and I am happy to give liberals a go.
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