Australian Politics Forum - The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58403 Here Gender:	Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People. Reply #75 - May 19^th, 2013 at 3:56pm progressiveslol wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 3:46pm: Either has labor while promising it 300 times. So you are screwed and I am happy to give liberals a go. Just as they will be happy to laugh their heads off at you while screwing you.
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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #76 - May 19^th, 2013 at 5:04pm

philperth2010 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Under the Howard Government the treasury underestimated the revenue intake providing Howard with a surplus he did not account for.....Howard promptly used this windfall to pork barrel and buy votes from a public that was ignorant to the fact Australia was living a lie about the true state of the economy.....Howard should have used the surplus to fund education and social reforms much like the Gillard Government has tried to do with Gonski the NDIS and Infrastructure spending to address the back log left by the Howard Government.....Tony Abbott has said he will not fund rail and will not embrace Gonski.....Tony Abbott is not the solution to a sustainable future for Australia and his constant referral to the Howard Government shows he will be another do nothing Prime Minister if elected.....Australia cannot afford another decade of doing nothing!!!

Angry

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

and the highlighted bit I the fundamental difference between labor and liberal. Costello took the prudent and almost pessimistic revenue projections and worked on those. He banked the difference. Swan banked on the most optimistic and frankly. ludicrous predictions of revenue and spent even more than that. Costello waiting until the money came in while Swan spent it before it came in and was burned when it didn't. The carbon tax revnue is way below target - but the money was all spent before it even started. The mining tax revenue - all$9B of it - was spent long before it came in and then it was only $122M.

Labor spends money it doesn't have and wont have. Costello spent what he HAD.

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hawil

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #77 - May 19^th, 2013 at 5:24pm

RightSadFred wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 7:43am:

progressiveslol wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 7:37am:

Emmerson is the dumbest and most extreme member of gillards fabian front bench.

What he says is even more worthy of ignoring but taking the lies to fuel your rage at labor.

The best way to a surplus is to get rid of the ALP and never elect them again until they reform themselves economically.

Howard delivered surpluses through economic success, on tax you don't increase them you reform them

This reform would be most equitable:
The Australian social system is constructed in a way, where retirees just above the allowed income scale for a full old-age pension are punished by the means test of the pension, losing $0.50 for every dollar extra income, and if the combined income of a pensioner couple exceed approximately $50,000 per annum they may pay $0.30 in the dollar tax plus medicare levy.

Now consider the self-funded retiree couple with 2million $ worth of assets can have an income of $100,000 plus, and if the income is from a taxed fund, they will not have to pay a cent of tax, which would be close or above the full age pension.

Should their assets fall below $1,086,000, they can apply for a part age-pension. As the government provides a safety net of the basic age-pension for every person eligible, why provide such huge tax concessions for the top 10% of retirees?

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Dnarever

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #78 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:12pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 11:36am:

Yet how come the Government don't seem to be spending any money on the middle incomes Phil?

As usual they are all about spending on the losers aren't they?

That is because people on what you call a middle income are earning enough to look after themselves and do not require unsustainable government hand outs.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #79 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:18pm

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:55am:

RightSadFred wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:43am:

philperth2010 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Under the Howard Government the treasury underestimated the revenue intake providing Howard with a surplus he did not account for.....Howard promptly used this windfall to pork barrel and buy votes from a public that was ignorant to the fact Australia was living a lie about the true state of the economy.....Howard should have used the surplus to fund education and social reforms much like the Gillard Government has tried to do with Gonski the NDIS and Infrastructure spending to address the back log left by the Howard Government.....Tony Abbott has said he will not fund rail and will not embrace Gonski.....Tony Abbott is not the solution to a sustainable future for Australia and his constant referral to the Howard Government shows he will be another do nothing Prime Minister if elected.....Australia cannot afford another decade of doing nothing!!!

Angry

The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.
Robertson Davies, "A Voice from the Attic", 1960

philperth2010

I think he should have toned down the pork, but its a political reality ..... he used it very well to keep them in power for so long.

He did leave the nation with a surplus, the ALP could have started much of what you said back in 2007 but they blew it all on political motives as well.

So why does the ALP have a secret 400 million dollar election stash again ?
This supports my comments on the ALP, they have acted like an opposition since 2007 ..... its only just now they hae realised they are in government, just before they get booted out.

He did leave the nation with a surplus

And an economy geared to fail.

He left a time bomb for Labor to wear.

garbage. it is up to the CURRENT govt of the day to adapt to the circumstances that exists at the time and not to constantly blame predecessors. it is in fact astonishing to hear idiots blame howard for no debt, surpluses and $80B put aside in savings.

if only all govts could 'fail' so well.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #80 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:19pm

philperth2010 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:12am:

cods wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:04am:

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:45am:

cods wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:24am:

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:13am:

RightSadFred wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 7:43am:

progressiveslol wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 7:37am:

Emmerson is the dumbest and most extreme member of gillards fabian front bench.

What he says is even more worthy of ignoring but taking the lies to fuel your rage at labor.

The best way to a surplus is to get rid of the ALP and never elect them again until the reform themselves economically.

Howard delivered surpluses through economic success, on tax you don't increase them you reform them

The conservatives $100 Billion of unfunded spending will ensure that the coalition can not hope to produce a surplus inside a decade. Abbott and Hockey will never produce a surplus, you would need to be crackers to think differently.

Howard delivered surpluses through economic success

YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL I GATHER? I WOULD GET RID OF IT IF I WERE YOU IT DIDNT DO WELL OVER THIS 6 YEARS DID IT?

Costello produced surpluses based on the strong economic position he inherited coupled with the strongest world economic growth in over a century.

DONT YOU THINK ITS TIME YOU WERE JUST A TINY BIT FAIR.... SWAN INHERITED FAR MORE THAN COSTELLO DID..HE HAD A SURPLUS TO START WITH.. PERHAPS HAD HE BEEN A BIT MORE PRUDENT HE WOULDNT BE WHERE HE IS NOW...44% IN THE POLLS....THE ECONOMY YOU KEEP GIVING COSTELLO CREDIT FOR INCREASED 3 FOLD DURING THE RUDD/GILLARD YEARS.... SWAN UPPED THE BABY BONUS WHY????? PAID MATERNITY LEAVE...WHY????? ITS ALL WELFARE THATS WHY. AND THEN WE HAVE THE BOATS....NUFF SAID..

JUST A LITTLE CREDIT FOR THE LIBS WOULDNT GO AMISS IT WASNT ALL GOOD FORTUNE FOR THEM AND LOUSY FORTUNE FOR LABOR AND YOU KNOW IT.

I have given Costello a lot of credit for the things he got right as Treasurer, Many times I have rated him in the top 2 treasurers we have had. It is however a fact that some of his success was due to the period he had but nothing he could have done about a bit of good luck, its not his fault Cods so don't feel too bad for him.

In my view Keating and Costello are the two best treasurers in my life time by a country mile. However they both did make mistakes and Costello was never really tested by bad conditions. (as I said that wasn't his fault).

SORRY MATE I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN YOU GIVE ONE WORD OF CREDIT.. NOT ONE...AND I DOUBT VERY MUCH YOU WILL PROVIDE A LINK...SORRY MATE... AND YOU CLAIM IT WAS ALL EASY PEASY GOING FOR COSTELLO.. LOL....THE FACT THAT SWAN HAD TREB LE THE INCOME DOESNT EQUATE WITH YOU DOES IT?? DONT YOU THINK THAT SHOULD HAVE HELPED HIM OV ER THE MINI HUMP....

WE WERENT AFFECTED BY THE GFC REMEMBER? WE SAILED THROUGH IT...at least thats the message I kept getting.. Wink

Australia did better than most during the GFC because we did not embrace AUSTRITY like those nations that are now in recession.....Australia could reduce its debt and cut services to the bone to do so.....Do you think that would help or hurt our economy in the long term???

Huh

and we didn't need to embrace harsh austerity because we had NO DEBT AND MONEY INTHE BANK. the very things you criticise howard for are the very tools that kept us out of recession.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #81 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:20pm

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

progressiveslol wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:15am:

just putting the brakes on spending increases would have been enough.

The spending to cope with the GFC was necessart and achieved its goal.

Other than that Labor have been very significantly cutting back on spending for about 5 consecutive budgets - trying to increase income all opposed by the opposition.

Pulling back on middle class welthfair etc has not been about class war it has been about affordability.

cutting spending??? with a 30% increase in spending in REAL TERMS??????

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #82 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:22pm

philperth2010 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Same IMF that lost $22.6bn in Russia and admitted they don't know where it went?

Same IMF that put a rapist at its Head?

Same IMF that backed the accounting that allowed Enron to book a $550m profit on a deal that lost money?

Get some better sources Phil.

The IMF are an Independent organisation Andre that has no vested interest in its assessment of the Australian economy....Feel free to post any alternative assessment that contradicts the IMF and most economists who agree the stimulus was the main reason Australia did not go into recession.....I am prepared to accept a valid argument that is supported with facts.....Opinions are worthless without substance!!!

Huh

the IMF have repeatedly gotten their own assessments and predictions wrong. An endorsement from them isn't necessarily worth that much since they endorsed the European economy up until the GFC.

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John Smith

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #83 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:33pm

Global economic conditions are vastly different today to what they were during Howards years. Howard had the best possible conditions in recent history, whereas today, we have some of the worst conditions since the great depression. Anyone who thinks the libs are going to come in and bring us into surplus alla Costello style is an idiot who is going to be mightilly dissapointed in about 3 years time. (hi progs)

All Abbott is going to do, if he wins office, is drive us into recession. However, that in itself won't be a bad thing, it at least means I won't have to hear the libs going on for the next 20 yrs about how they are the greatest economic managers. Libs have always had one modus operandi ... cut spending on the public service, sell everything, and cut services ... and yet despite they having used the same rule book since inception, Costello is the only time they've ever managed a surplus ... that should tell you one thing, it wasn't the libs rules that bought about a surplus, but more the fact that they got in during a time the whole world is booming.

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John Smith

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #84 - May 19^th, 2013 at 6:33pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 6:22pm:

philperth2010 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Same IMF that lost $22.6bn in Russia and admitted they don't know where it went?

Same IMF that put a rapist at its Head?

Same IMF that backed the accounting that allowed Enron to book a $550m profit on a deal that lost money?

Get some better sources Phil.

The IMF are an Independent organisation Andre that has no vested interest in its assessment of the Australian economy....Feel free to post any alternative assessment that contradicts the IMF and most economists who agree the stimulus was the main reason Australia did not go into recession.....I am prepared to accept a valid argument that is supported with facts.....Opinions are worthless without substance!!!

Huh

the IMF have repeatedly gotten their own assessments and predictions wrong. An endorsement from them isn't necessarily worth that much since they endorsed the European economy up until the GFC.

it's still worth a lot more than your opinion ......

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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #85 - May 19^th, 2013 at 8:27pm

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

De-registered User wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

The ALP's spending is all "GREEK" to me.

There comes a time where we have to become "AUSTRALIAN" again.

I'd much rather see cuts to spending and pay high taxes now under the LIB's, than pay no tax under the ALP in a recession if not depression in the next few years.

Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).

how do you define a future event as fact?

PS Howard didn't have a recession either for 12 years.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #86 - May 19^th, 2013 at 8:32pm

John Smith wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 6:33pm:

Global economic conditions are vastly different today to what they were during Howards years. Howard had the best possible conditions in recent history, whereas today, we have some of the worst conditions since the great depression. Anyone who thinks the libs are going to come in and bring us into surplus alla Costello style is an idiot who is going to be mightilly dissapointed in about 3 years time. (hi progs)

All Abbott is going to do, if he wins office, is drive us into recession. However, that in itself won't be a bad thing, it at least means I won't have to hear the libs going on for the next 20 yrs about how they are the greatest economic managers. Libs have always had one modus operandi ... cut spending on the public service, sell everything, and cut services ... and yet despite they having used the same rule book since inception, Costello is the only time they've ever managed a surplus ... that should tell you one thing, it wasn't the libs rules that bought about a surplus, but more the fact that they got in during a time the whole world is booming.

yes, howard had better global conditions. nobody is ignoring it. However in these good times Howard made an impressive improvement in our fiscal position ie he saved for a rainy day. In more difficult times labor have done an utterly crap job. massive debt, massive deficit, higher unemployment. it hardly stands up as an impressive record. A truly impressive outcome would be if the economy was growing stronger and stronger, unemployment was still down and our debt was at a low level. Labo have done a lousy job in poor circumstances.

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #87 - May 19^th, 2013 at 8:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:

Dnarever wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

De-registered User wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

The ALP's spending is all "GREEK" to me.

There comes a time where we have to become "AUSTRALIAN" again.

I'd much rather see cuts to spending and pay high taxes now under the LIB's, than pay no tax under the ALP in a recession if not depression in the next few years.

Labor avoided recession (fact) the Liberals are our best chance to have one (also a fact).

how do you define a future event as fact?

PS Howard didn't have a recession either for 12 years.

how do you define a future event as fact?

best chance

I would think that putting 2 dim wits in charge going in with $100 Billion of additional spending commitments would be one of the obvious outcomes in a tough economic position.

The Labor performance clearly shows that a recession under their leadership is very unlikely.

So the fact is that one way (labor) it is proven unlikely on known performance the other option (Libs) it is a reasonable outcome to expect.

It is clear obvious and reasonable to say that it is a fact that the known performance V the known poor economic expectation with high spending and known lack of ability means that the most likely recession would come from the libs.

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philperth2010

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #88 - May 19^th, 2013 at 9:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:32pm:

John Smith wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 6:33pm:

Global economic conditions are vastly different today to what they were during Howards years. Howard had the best possible conditions in recent history, whereas today, we have some of the worst conditions since the great depression. Anyone who thinks the libs are going to come in and bring us into surplus alla Costello style is an idiot who is going to be mightilly dissapointed in about 3 years time. (hi progs)

All Abbott is going to do, if he wins office, is drive us into recession. However, that in itself won't be a bad thing, it at least means I won't have to hear the libs going on for the next 20 yrs about how they are the greatest economic managers. Libs have always had one modus operandi ... cut spending on the public service, sell everything, and cut services ... and yet despite they having used the same rule book since inception, Costello is the only time they've ever managed a surplus ... that should tell you one thing, it wasn't the libs rules that bought about a surplus, but more the fact that they got in during a time the whole world is booming.

yes, howard had better global conditions. nobody is ignoring it. However in these good times Howard made an impressive improvement in our fiscal position ie he saved for a rainy day. In more difficult times labor have done an utterly crap job. massive debt, massive deficit, higher unemployment. it hardly stands up as an impressive record. A truly impressive outcome would be if the economy was growing stronger and stronger, unemployment was still down and our debt was at a low level. Labo have done a lousy job in poor circumstances.

The economy is growing and has done throughout Labor's tenure.....Unemployment is low compared to Howards early years as PM.....The period of 1998 to 2003 saw higher unemployment that we have today.....Our debt is low compared to every other comparable country who envy Australia's economy.....Howard did a crap job in the most favourable circumstances......Over a decade of record growth and the sale of over $100 billion in assets with nothing to show for it.....Your idea of good management does not stack up against the facts!!!

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John Smith

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Re: The Sure Way To A Surplus, Tax The People.
Reply #89 - May 19^th, 2013 at 9:22pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 8:32pm:

John Smith wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 6:33pm:

Global economic conditions are vastly different today to what they were during Howards years. Howard had the best possible conditions in recent history, whereas today, we have some of the worst conditions since the great depression. Anyone who thinks the libs are going to come in and bring us into surplus alla Costello style is an idiot who is going to be mightilly dissapointed in about 3 years time. (hi progs)

All Abbott is going to do, if he wins office, is drive us into recession. However, that in itself won't be a bad thing, it at least means I won't have to hear the libs going on for the next 20 yrs about how they are the greatest economic managers. Libs have always had one modus operandi ... cut spending on the public service, sell everything, and cut services ... and yet despite they having used the same rule book since inception, Costello is the only time they've ever managed a surplus ... that should tell you one thing, it wasn't the libs rules that bought about a surplus, but more the fact that they got in during a time the whole world is booming.

yes, howard had better global conditions. nobody is ignoring it. However in these good times Howard made an impressive improvement in our fiscal position ie he saved for a rainy day. In more difficult times labor have done an utterly crap job. massive debt, massive deficit, higher unemployment. it hardly stands up as an impressive record. A truly impressive outcome would be if the economy was growing stronger and stronger, unemployment was still down and our debt was at a low level. Labo have done a lousy job in poor circumstances.

Howard made an impresivce improvement into our financial position by selling whatever he could get his hands on . Labor has had steady growth throughout a time when just about all our trading partners hit a wall. Our economy is stronger and unemployment is down. The only thing you have is the debt argument but thats thats just blowing smoke. Abbotts own plans at the last elections would have seen us in even more debt. Admit it longloser, despite all the rhetoric, labor has done alright. Sure, they could have done better, but that can be said about anyone. Where labor has rally struggled is in their ability to sell an idea .... absolutely woeful, I wonder how much of that was because of the hung parliament and the fact that they were forced to have to water down their ideas to get anything to happen .. it's always hard to sell someone else's policy.

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