Australian Politics Forum - Marriage equality only for homosexuals

It_is_the_Darkness

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #60 - Jun 5^th, 2013 at 8:31pm

Worked in Medical Theatres where operations were aplenty done because of what damage ANAL sex does.
It is a very UN-HYGENIC act in the name of Sexual Health and unofficially the main culprit behind sexually transmitted diseases.

Its not because of RELIGION that Gay Marriages shouldn't be justified to justify ANAL SEX.
Even though Gays are using USA Politics and Law to BULLY Religion.
(...watching gays hurl abuse at Catholic Church carrying its cross...)

"If my son was Gay?"
I would say...
"Son. We all make mistakes. Sometimes they are financial, social, etc. They main thing is that you learn that what you did was wrong, and there is a better way of living for the betterment of everyone."
and
"Do you think they should legalise me sleeping with another man's woman? I mean - its love too and I want to. BUTT too much of a good thing can be bad for you (me)."

Gays: They tried to jump on the horse of Celibacy and fell off the other side to kiss the dirt (and blame the horse!).

...and Rednecks are failed 'Family' people.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #61 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 6:12am

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 8:31pm:

Worked in Medical Theatres where operations were aplenty done because of what damage ANAL sex does.
It is a very UN-HYGENIC act in the name of Sexual Health and unofficially the main culprit behind sexually transmitted diseases.

Its not because of RELIGION that Gay Marriages shouldn't be justified to justify ANAL SEX.
Even though Gays are using USA Politics and Law to BULLY Religion.
(...watching gays hurl abuse at Catholic Church carrying its cross...)

"If my son was Gay?"
I would say...
"Son. We all make mistakes. Sometimes they are financial, social, etc. They main thing is that you learn that what you did was wrong, and there is a better way of living for the betterment of everyone."
and
"Do you think they should legalise me sleeping with another man's woman? I mean - its love too and I want to. BUTT too much of a good thing can be bad for you (me)."

Gays: They tried to jump on the horse of Celibacy and fell off the other side to kiss the dirt (and blame the horse!).

...and Rednecks are failed 'Family' people.

But hey its okay for religion to hurl abuse @ everyone else huh?

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #62 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 6:14am

Grendel wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

yep... it is not about equality
it is not about love

it is about marriage... the union of a man and a woman.

The issue isn't about homophobia or human rights. It is about lifestyle, choice, tradition and in some cases (perhaps, the majority) of Religion.

I know lots of people who are homosexual and guess what... they don't want to get married. Most "gay" people do not seek marriage. So who are you supposedly representing? The choice to be "gay" automatically excludes one from MARRIAGE, that being the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, a commitment to monogamy, the initiation of the natural family unit.

Face it choosing a "gay" lifestyle or relationship excludes one from having a family in the NATURAL context. IE a man and a woman, (husband and wife), having children. The tradition of marriage is based on this natural order. If I chose to be gay, I would accept this fact. No one is excluding anyone or trampling on anyone's human rights. No more than a Vegan is prevented from eating meat... it is a choice, made by the individual. Choices have consequences. If I choose to play Cricket, I cannot then expect everyone to call it Football, just because I wish it.

As long as same sex relationships are afforded the same legal rights as heterosexual relationships (and they do) then, lets all stop the pandering to a vocal minority who seek to change the language and the meaning of our words and get on with life.

Oh boy another one that calls sexual preference a 'lifestyle'. . . .. .

SOB

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals Reply #63 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:12am Grendel wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 8:22pm: It doesn't... because marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Ps. I don't think what you think about it counts. It is as yet unproven that one is born gay. Nature and Nurture baby. yeah...neither of which imply choice.
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Fit of Absent Mindeness

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #64 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:28am

Grendel wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 5:10pm:

Giving you one last chance to have a think about your questions before I CHOOSE to answer them and make you look sillier than you already do.

Why should I think about my questions - you haven't answered them as yet.

By attacking me - yet again - your showing you either can't answer these questions, don't like the answers or simply don't want to answer.

I'm not the one who looks silly.

It appears that those against don't like it when you ask them why they are against it.

They don't seem to want to provide evidence to back up their positions - after all they are in the majority (apparently) and it should be fairly easy to come up with some compelling evidence.

You can attack me all you want, I'm not the one who looks silly because I don't have anything to support my position.

You say I am creating a strawman argument, yet those against bring up things like:

Incest
Bestiality
Marrying a chair
Having children
The sanctity of marriage

Yet when pressed for evidence based on their position - they attack the other side and bring up immorality, the gay agenda and how allowing 2 consenting adults to have formal relationship recognition will some how be the downfall of society.

If this was really about the sanctity of marriage divorce would be illegal.

If this was really about tradition, women would still be owned by men.

If the bible really was a foundation for our laws you could stone people who worked on sunday and non virgins.

Of course divorce is legal and we don't stone anyone.

The bible is the basis for a religion - it isn't the basis for our legal system and our society has since moved past it with less people being religious.

Being gay isn't about having anal sex either - straight couples engage in this practice as well - does this mean we should deny them the right to marry?

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals Reply #65 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:30am Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:28am: You say I am creating a strawman argument, Says the man who thinks the only opposition is based on the bible.
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Fit of Absent Mindeness

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #66 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:33am

... wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:30am:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:28am:

You say I am creating a strawman argument,

Says the man who thinks the only opposition is based on the bible.

Show me where I said the only opposition was based on the bible?

There are those non religious people who are against it also.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that their arguments always have the same themes too them.

When pressed about their arguments and whether they can show evidence they seem to go on the attack.

It's like they have no evidence, they don't like being challenged about their beliefs and don't like that their beliefs aren't shared by everyone.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #67 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 9:06am

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 8:31pm:

Worked in Medical Theatres where operations were aplenty done because of what damage ANAL sex does.

" ... 44 percent of straight men and 36 percent of straight women admitted to having had anal sex at least once in their lives."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/06/anal-sex-heterosexual-couples-report_n_...

I know three gay guys and none of them have anal sex. In fact, all three are quite repulsed by the act.

I'm straight, and I've had anal sex with many of the women I've slept with (and all except one absolutely loved it).

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Grendel

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #68 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 11:07am

... wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 8:12am:

Grendel wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

It doesn't... because marriage is the union of a man and a woman.

Ps. I don't think what you think about it counts. It is as yet unproven that one is born gay. Nature and Nurture baby.

yeah...neither of which imply choice. Huh

I was referring to the obvious and oft noted facts that impact behaviour. Let me know when you get it honky, sometimes one trumps the other by a longshot. I can't be bothered getting into a pedantic struggle with you re Nurture and choice Grin

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals Reply #69 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 11:58am No need for a pedantic struggle. Just a quick, 25 word summary of how one 'chooses' their genes and developmental environment will be fine thanks.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107131 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals Reply #70 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 12:07pm I people knew what homos did they wouldn't support them:
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Grendel

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #71 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:30pm

... wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 11:58am:

No need for a pedantic struggle. Just a quick, 25 word summary of how one 'chooses' their genes and developmental environment will be fine thanks.

So you think the act of a man having sex with another man or woman with a woman is genetic?

Wow. If you can prove that it's Nobel prize time for you.

Because up till now no scientific study has been able to prove that.

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Grendel

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #72 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:46pm

oh and honky... to back up my experience and understanding...

Quote:

Dean Byrd, the past president of NARTH, confirmed that the statement from the American Psychological Association came in a brochure that updates what the APA has advocated for years.
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Specifically, in a brochure that first came out about 1998, the APA stated: “There is considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person’s sexuality.”

However, in the update: a brochure now called, “Answers to Your Questions for a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality,” the APA’s position changed.

The new statement says:

“There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. …”

“Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed,” Byrd wrote. “The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.”

Byrd said the APA’s documents both new and old “have strong activist overtones,” but the newer document “is more reflective of science and more consistent with the ethicality of psychological care.”

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #73 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 4:17pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

... wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 11:58am:

No need for a pedantic struggle. Just a quick, 25 word summary of how one 'chooses' their genes and developmental environment will be fine thanks.

So you think the act of a man having sex with another man or woman with a woman is genetic?

Wow. If you can prove that it's Nobel prize time for you.

Because up till now no scientific study has been able to prove that.

Acts aren't genetic, but predispositions or inclinations to commit them can be.

Don't tell me you're of the belief that they shouldn't choose to act on them? A bit unfair innit?

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In the fullness of time...

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Re: Marriage equality only for homosexuals
Reply #74 - Jun 6^th, 2013 at 4:31pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

oh and honky... to back up my experience and understanding...

...A cut and paste job resulting froma google search along the lines of 'gay gene'. You must be an expert.

Quote:

“There is considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person’s sexuality.”

Yep. Do you know what a "signfiicant role" means?

Quote:

“There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. …”

I am one of that many. I agreed with your "nature and nurture" statement, but asked where choice came into it. You didn't answer. Sad

Quote:

“Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed,” Byrd wrote. “The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.”

So? I say it, like everything else, is nature AND nurture. hardly a "biological fait accompli".
Genes interact with each other and the environment to produce effects, so looking for 1 single gene as a cause of a particular trait is a fools errand.

So, I ask again: where does "choice" fit in?

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