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Muslims want to silence and intimidate you (Read 80574 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #270 - Apr 10th, 2014 at 9:35pm
 
So no examples of me calling for censorship that aren't related to incitement to violence and intimidation then?

freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 6:55pm:
You are projecting an absolutism onto me that is simply not there.


I'm sorry FD, but you projected that absolutism on yourself when you made those stirring 'manning the baricades' lectures about fighting for free speech at all costs. And you really just shoot yourself in the foot by pointing to, of all things, film censorship in the muslim world as the be-all and end-all in the struggle for free speech, while appearing completely oblivious to the fact that the same threat exists in our society. And as if your position couldn't get any more absurd, you actually try and justify this double standard by saying 'oh but we love freedom - so you can totally trust our guys to make the right censorship decisions - and (get this) the details don't matter'.

freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 6:55pm:
How is it random?


I said it could be random. We have the institutions in place to potentially have blanket censorship. And we saw during Steven Conroy's reign of terror how close we actually came to that. And to act so blasé about this potential threat, and sit back and say "hey its all cool cause we have the right values - while at the same time reeling in horror at the censorship of Russel Crowe in Malaysia -  is simply astonishing.

freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 6:55pm:
Most westerners manage this quite easily barely a thought. For some reason Muslims always make it out to be the most complicated thing in the world.


No thats you FD. You are the king of obfuscating relatively straightforward positions into the incomprehensible. Anyone who reads the first 10 pages of this thread can see a live exhibition of this. My position is absolutely consistent and straightforward - I support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't incite violence or intimidate. You throw all sorts of accusations about me being hypocritical about this, and backflipping at every opportunity - but singularly fail to provide any sort of support for this. Your deafening silence on me calling your bluff last post just proves this.

As usual the anti-islam narrative you create is entirely the product of your own distortions and obfuscations - and have no reflection whatsoever on what any muslim actually said here.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #271 - Apr 10th, 2014 at 9:54pm
 
No no, I believe Abu said something about freedom once. I think he said it should be banned.

Yes, that’s it - banned. Can you believe it?

How utterly, utterly apalling, even for a Muselman. Typical.

Thank heavens we have FD, Herbie, Y and the old boy to stand up for Freedom. I, for one, am most grateful for their Larry Pickering and Bible quotes.

I do feel it brings us together as a society.
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Soren
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #272 - Apr 10th, 2014 at 9:56pm
 
Nobody bats an eyelid when people hate conservatives, Liberals, communists, fascists, PC, lefties, righties, greenies, hippies, whatnot.

Why can't people hate and dislike Islam in peace? Why is it not OK to hate and dislike this particular ideology when all others can be hated and disliked?

Do Islam's violent tendencies have anything to do with this? Is it because of what Sam Harris said: "The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you."

Are we all simply afraid of Islam?




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Karnal
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #273 - Apr 10th, 2014 at 10:29pm
 
Ideology? Oh, no you don’t, old boy. We won’t have you practice your awful spineless appeasing nonsense here.

We hate Muselmen. Well, more specifically, the tinted races - the culturally tinted races.

You can stop your hideous spineless apologetics right there. We know exactly what you’re up to. These NESB types go in for your stool.

Well, not anymore.
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Yadda
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #274 - Apr 11th, 2014 at 9:42am
 
Soren wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 9:56pm:
Nobody bats an eyelid when people hate conservatives, Liberals, communists, fascists, PC, lefties, righties, greenies, hippies, whatnot.



Because being a 'conservative' [and such], requires a degree of 'discrimination' ?

But socialists and humanists teach our children, that exercising personal discrimination, is a social crime ?

Dictionary;
discriminating = = having or showing good taste or judgement.

<----- This is what the word 'discrimination' use to mean, before the humanists and their ilk, got their claws into the English language!






Quote:

Why can't people hate and dislike Islam in peace? Why is it not OK to hate and dislike this particular ideology when all others can be hated and disliked?

Do Islam's violent tendencies have anything to do with this? Is it because of what Sam Harris said: "The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you."

Are we all simply afraid of Islam?




IMO, our society/culture has taught us and our children to be afraid of,       ....being.







Is it because we live in a
"Me!!!!"
society/culture ?

Is it because all modern, advanced, 'tolerant' societies, tend to produce individuals who have NO real commitment to an ethical life [i.e. with little or no real capacity on the part of the individual, to 'discriminate' between good and evil] ?

And why so ?

Is it because a commitment to exercising an ethical choice, is always, normally, going to involve some degree of self sacrifice [or shock horror!!!! of exercising some degree of self denial] ?


Is Atheism a Religion?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304543494/625#625
Quote:

What gives me pleasure, is good.

And what prevents me from experiencing pleasure, is evil/bad.










Ranking Ethics

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1292918320/24#24
Quote:

IMO, there is probably nothing more unethical in the world today, than the 'humanist' worldview, and those who promote so called liberal 'ethics'.

IMO, this generation of mankind has lost the ability to discern between good and evil.


......
Humanist, and liberal ethics....

Today, our children are taught that it is wrong to try to 'discriminate' between good and evil, and to reject what is evil.
Today, they and we, are taught that, essentially, good and evil do not exist.







Only for conservatives....

http://www.solitaryroad.com/a191.html

http://www.solitaryroad.com/home.html



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #275 - Apr 11th, 2014 at 10:31am
 
Soren wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 9:56pm:
Nobody bats an eyelid when people hate conservatives, Liberals, communists, fascists, PC, lefties, righties, greenies, hippies, whatnot.

Why can't people hate and dislike Islam in peace? Why is it not OK to hate and dislike this particular ideology when all others can be hated and disliked?

Do Islam's violent tendencies have anything to do with this? Is it because of what Sam Harris said: "The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you."

Are we all simply afraid of Islam?



Well, islam is certainly the elephant in the room.
I am chatting with a muslim elsewhere, he has similar tendancies to all other muslims I have met.
Scratch a muslim, find an islamic.
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #276 - Apr 11th, 2014 at 10:42am
 
Please don't scratch me Sprint. Thats just creepy.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #277 - Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:23pm
 
Quote:
I'm sorry FD, but you projected that absolutism on yourself when you...


Quote me.

Quote:
And you really just shoot yourself in the foot by pointing to, of all things, film censorship in the muslim world as the be-all and end-all in the struggle for free speech


Quote me.

Quote:
while appearing completely oblivious to the fact that the same threat exists in our society


Freedom of speech is always under threat. The difference you fail to see is that the Muslim countries are actually banning these films, for no sound reason whatsoever.

Quote:
I said it could be random


So in Australia there is a "threat" that the same thing might happen as what goes on in Muslim countries. You are completely correct in this. That is why we must defend freedom of speech.

Quote:
No thats you FD. You are the king of obfuscating relatively straightforward positions into the incomprehensible. Anyone who reads the first 10 pages of this thread can see a live exhibition of this. My position is absolutely consistent and straightforward - I support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't incite violence or intimidate.


So the example where you would ban a movie because of the potential over-reaction from Muslims - where does that fit in?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #278 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 7:54am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:23pm:
Freedom of speech is always under threat. The difference you fail to see is that the Muslim countries are actually banning these films, for no sound reason whatsoever.


Your problem is with using the subjective prhase "for no sound reaon".

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:23pm:
So in Australia there is a "threat" that the same thing might happen as what goes on in Muslim countries. You are completely correct in this. That is why we must defend freedom of speech.


Thats exactly my point FD. You talk big, but when it comes down to it, you are completely hypocritical when comparing the threat between here and muslim countries. And doing it with such spineless apologetics like 'its ok - our guys have the right values' and therefore 'the details don't matter'. What a joke.

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:23pm:
So the example where you would ban a movie because of the potential over-reaction from Muslims - where does that fit in?


You demanded I choose between censorship and violence. I choose censorship, and you think thats unreasonable.  Tongue
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #279 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:05am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 7:54am:
[quote author=freediver link=1369558442/277#277 date=1397380980]

You demanded I choose between censorship and violence. I choose censorship, and you think thats unreasonable.  Tongue



Why is there a threat of violence by Muslims unless censorship is used?

WHy can't Muslims self-censor their own reactions and behaviour.
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freediver
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #280 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:35am
 
Quote:
Your problem is with using the subjective prhase "for no sound reaon".


Do you think the Muslim countries have a sound reason for banning the Noah movie? Do you think the reasoning for banning depictions of violent sexual acts is unsound?

Quote:
Thats exactly my point FD. You talk big, but when it comes down to it, you are completely hypocritical when comparing the threat between here and muslim countries.


Can you elaborate on this please? I have never been shy about pointing out what shitholes muslim countries are. It doesn't even make sense to talk about a "threat". Most of them have already lost their freedom of speech. Or do you think the "potential" for our censorship bureaucrats to go overboard is somehow equivalent?

Quote:
You demanded I choose between censorship and violence. I choose censorship, and you think thats unreasonable.


Not only that, I think it highlights the lie that you "support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't incite violence or intimidate". You would surrender freedom of speech at the first opportunity, because you do not genuinely support it. You merely offer hollow words in an attempt to appear normal.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #281 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 10:36am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you think the Muslim countries have a sound reason for banning the Noah movie?


Define "sound reason" without projecting your own values on to others.

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:35am:
Do you think the reasoning for banning depictions of violent sexual acts is unsound?


Not at all - but I'm not the one attacking censorship in some cases while simultaneously apologising for it in others. Australia bans films, TV and websites for sexual acts between consenting adults - is that as "unsound" as muslim countries banning depictions of their prophets?

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:35am:
Most of them have already lost their freedom of speech.


That was one of the points I was making - everyone knows that most muslim countries have far less freedoms than we do, but it was you who was insisting we talk about the evils of film censorship in isolation. Thats why this whole thing is silly - to condemn a country for banning a film that portrays of an islamic prophet, but to apologise for our own willingness to ban depictions of consensual sex. By your own criteria (ie as long as its not violent sexual abuse), you should be equally outraged about both - not offering spineless apologetics for one while condemning the other.

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:35am:
Or do you think the "potential" for our censorship bureaucrats to go overboard is somehow equivalent?


Of course it is not equivalent, but you make it so easy for me when you literally dismiss it with the most bizarre apologetics: 'its not a concern because its done by people with the right values' and 'the details don't matter'. I would have thought that it deserves far more concern by people like you - there's no telling when we'll get another Stephen Conroy and the next time the level heads may not prevail like it did last time. And its the apologists like you who will ensure they will get away with it.

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:35am:
Not only that, I think it highlights the lie that you "support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't incite violence or intimidate"


And yet the scenario you gave me did incite violence.

But you clarified your position, and in response I clarified mine. Suggest you look back over that discussion before you use this accusation at me again.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #282 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 3:38pm
 
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: ‘They Simply Wanted Me to be Silenced’
TIME Staff  April 9, 2014          

On Tuesday, officials at Brandeis University backed off granting an honorary degree to Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Alian, a staunch women’s advocate and fierce critic of Islam, due to many faculty members’ requests and a large online petition. Here is Ali’s statement in response to the university’s actions:
http://time.com/56111/ayaan-hirsi-ali-they-simply-wanted-me-to-be-silenced/

Yesterday Brandeis University decided to withdraw an honorary degree they were to confer upon me next month during their Commencement exercises. I wish to dissociate myself from the university’s statement, which implies that I was in any way consulted about this decision. On the contrary, I was completely shocked when President Frederick Lawrence called me — just a few hours before issuing a public statement — to say that such a decision had been made.

When Brandeis approached me with the offer of an honorary degree, I accepted partly because of the institution’s distinguished history; it was founded in 1948, in the wake of World War II and the Holocaust, as a co-educational, nonsectarian university at a time when many American universities still imposed rigid admission quotas on Jewish students. I assumed that Brandeis intended to honor me for my work as a defender of the rights of women against abuses that are often religious in origin. For over a decade, I have spoken out against such practices as female genital mutilation, so-called “honor killings,” and applications of Sharia Law that justify such forms of domestic abuse as wife beating or child beating. Part of my work has been to question the role of Islam in legitimizing such abhorrent practices. So I was not surprised when my usual critics, notably the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), protested against my being honored in this way.

What did surprise me was the behavior of Brandeis. Having spent many months planning for me to speak to its students at Commencement, the university yesterday announced that it could not “overlook certain of my past statements,” which it had not previously been aware of. Yet my critics have long specialized in selective quotation — lines from interviews taken out of context — designed to misrepresent me and my work. It is scarcely credible that Brandeis did not know this when they initially offered me the degree.

What was initially intended as an honor has now devolved into a moment of shaming. Yet the slur on my reputation is not the worst aspect of this episode. More deplorable is that an institution set up on the basis of religious freedom should today so deeply betray its own founding principles. The “spirit of free expression” referred to in the Brandeis statement has been stifled here, as my critics have achieved their objective of preventing me from addressing the graduating Class of 2014. Neither Brandeis nor my critics knew or even inquired as to what I might say. They simply wanted me to be silenced. I regret that very much.

Not content with a public disavowal, Brandeis has invited me “to join us on campus in the future to engage in a dialogue about these important issues.” Sadly, in words and deeds, the university has already spoken its piece. I have no wish to “engage” in such one-sided dialogue. I can only wish the Class of 2014 the best of luck — and hope that they will go forth to be better advocates for free expression and free thought than their alma mater.

I take this opportunity to thank all those who have supported me and my work on behalf of oppressed woman and girls everywhere.


And Comment by Mark STeyn:
In London, the historian Andrew Roberts calls her "the bravest woman I know". I agree. There's nothing hypothetical about the danger she lives with. She and Theo van Gogh made a movie called Submission: He's dead, and the fellows who did it would like to kill her, too. But some tenured navel-gazing hacks and the prissy little trusty-fundy twerps they pretend to teach think she's the threat?

As for Brandeis president Frederick Lawrence and the others who took this decision, nobody's asking them to be as brave as Ayaan Hirsi Ali. They will never know what it's like to have their associates murdered and to be forced into living under armed guard. They will never have to "share the risk" that Ms Hirsi Ali faces every day of her life. All that was required of President Lawrence & Co was that they not be total craven, jelly-spined squishes who fold like a cheap Bedouin tent at the first hint of pressure.

But Lawrence couldn't even do that. Ayaan Hirsi Ali campaigns against female genital mutilation - that's to say, the barbarous practice by which Muslim men deny women sexual pleasure by having their clitorises cut off. Lawrence and the other fellows who run Brandeis are in no danger of any equivalent procedure since it seems clear they've nothing down there to chop off anyway. The eunuchs of the American academy are the beneficiaries of western liberty, of the spirit of openness and inquiry that is the principal difference between us and the intellectually stagnant Muslim world. But they will not lift a finger to defend that tradition.
http://www.steynonline.com/6250/degrees-of-separation
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #283 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 5:16pm
 
Quote:
I take this opportunity to thank all those who have supported me and my work on behalf of oppressed woman and girls everywhere.


And I too, old chap. I would also like to use this opportunity to thank you for all the marvellous work you've done to help the fairer sex.

Where there was id, there shall a wonderful plate of fresh stool be.

I, for one, thank you.
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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #284 - Apr 14th, 2014 at 6:00pm
 
Quote:
Define "sound reason" without projecting your own values on to others.


I am not projecting anything. I am asking you whether you think they have a sound reason.

Quote:
Not at all - but I'm not the one attacking censorship in some cases while simultaneously apologising for it in others.


Do you support the censorship of so many hollywood movies by Muslim countries?

Quote:
Australia bans films, TV and websites for sexual acts between consenting adults


It restricts them. You can still get them, legally.

Quote:
is that as "unsound" as muslim countries banning depictions of their prophets?


I think it is completely different. Do you support bans on the depictions of prophets? I am having a hard time figuring you out here Gandalf. You claim to agree with me, or at least with the majority of Australians, while at the same time criticising the views you apparently agree with as being 'unsound'.

Quote:
That was one of the points I was making - everyone knows that most muslim countries have far less freedoms than we do, but it was you who was insisting we talk about the evils of film censorship in isolation.


Quote me.

Quote:
By your own criteria (ie as long as its not violent sexual abuse), you should be equally outraged about both - not offering spineless apologetics for one while condemning the other.


Would you mind clarifying what you think my criteria is? You still seem very confused about it.

Quote:
Of course it is not equivalent, but you make it so easy for me when you literally dismiss it with the most bizarre apologetics: 'its not a concern because its done by people with the right values' and 'the details don't matter'.


I don't care about the details is not the same as saying they don't matter. Nor is there is anything inherently wrong with trusting others to make the right decision. This is not hypocrisy. What goes on in Muslim countries is not merely a disagreement over the finer details. It is a complete rejection of the concept of freedom of speech, and most of the freedoms and rights we take for granted.

Quote:
I would have thought that it deserves far more concern by people like you


I don't really care what you think I should think about either.

Quote:
there's no telling when we'll get another Stephen Conroy and the next time the level heads may not prevail like it did last time


When that happens I will jump on the bandwagon. But there is no way to protect against this. Demanding one version of extremism is order to protect from the potential of another version of extremism is what makes the Muslim countries such shitholes.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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