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Would it be reasonable to describe answering your question as pointless?

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Do you see anyone extolling these deeds as noble examples for all mankind to follow? I can show you Muslims doing this for Muhammed slaughtering 800 POWs in one day. That is the difference between making a point as asking a stupid question.

Western lefties generally don't kick it because they are unfamiliar with it. They associate it with minority issues. Muslim proponents of Islam do their best to associate it with minority issues and claim victimhood on behalf of Islam and Muslims, while at the same time trying to conceal the nastier aspects of Islam in various ways.

Foreign lefties don't kick it because if they did they would get their head chopped off.

Islam is the greatest modern barrier to the march of freedom and democracy. Millions of people around the world live in poverty and oppression (and a few with great wealth and oppression) because of Islam.

Some criticism of Islam is unfair. Some is entirely deserved. Hopefully the distinction is becoming clearer as people become more familiar with Islam.

stryder wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 7:08pm:


Glad you phrased that as a question, Stryder.

FD’s retort below should satisfy your curiousity. The greatest barrier to Freedom and demokracy.

We’ve done the East Indies. Shall we move onto Malaya?

Your call, FD. You did ask, remember.

A point? But FD, you asked me to describe which countries. We’re going through them one by one as you requested.

Would you like to discuss Malaya now, or would you prefer another country?

You choose. Remember, there are no right or wrong answers - or stupid questions.

That would be veering into Aussie-style Fascism, remember.

But, FD, you’ve only answered one question about South Korea - a stirring answer too. Why won’t you answer the rest?

Would you rather a different kind of list? How would you like to do this?

freediver wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 7:31pm:


That is garbage. When Arabia actually had a well-established Islamic system 1400 years ago, poverty was almost completely eradicated to the point that the government was forced to spend alms that it collected on financing young men to be married instead of feeding the poor because not enough poor could be found in the state.

Trade thrived in the Middle East under the Islamic state due to security and  peace, taxes were lower than they had ever been before, and their was system of wealth redistribution - transfers of government to the poor and needy.

The Islamic state offered freedom unknown to the world before. It was illegal to force anyone to convert to Islam. The Quran says:

"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path..."
- The Quran, al-Baqarah, v.256

"If your Lord had so willed, then everyone on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people in order to make them believers?"
- The Quran, Yunus, v.99

"So remind them (O Muhammad), you are only one who reminds; You are not a dictator over them"
- The Quran, al-Ghaashiyah, v.21-2



Umar bin Al-Khattab, the second Caliph of the Islamic state made a treaty with the Christians of Jerusalem with the following wording:

"This is what Umar, the Commander of the Faithful, grants to the people of Jerusalem. He grants them the safety of their persons, their churches, and their crosses… their churches will not be shut down nor destroyed.  Nothing will be taken from them or from their crosses.  They will not be compelled to abandon their faith nor shall any one of them be abused."

The Islamic state established freedoms such as the right to travel, the right to security, the right choice of employment, the right of women to choose their husbands, and to own their own property and inherit. The Islamic state also established the right of people to complain about their government and seek recourse for perceived wrongs, encouraged the freeing of slaves, and forbid injustice:

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just; this closest to piety..."
- The Quran, al-Ma'idah v.8

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers."
- The Quran, al-Mumtahina v.8


"God doth command you to render back your Trusts to those to whom they are due; And when ye judge between man and man, that ye judge with justice: Verily how excellent is the teaching which He giveth you! For God is He Who heareth and seeth all things."
- The Quran, an-Nisaa v.58

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both..."
- The Quran, an-Nisaa v.135

"God commands justice, the doing Of good, and liberality to kith And kin, and He forbids All shameful deeds, and injustice And rebellion: He instructs you, That ye may receive admonition."
- The Quran, 16:90

Any injustices we see today in Muslims countries are largely the results of detonation of Islamic values over the centuries combined with European and US colonisation followed by funding and political support of military dictators.

Karnal wrote on Apr 29^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:


The richest country in Southeast Asia is Singapore, which is basically a system based on an inherited dictatorship - freedom of speech, and the right to protest is not guaranteed, and all domestic media is tightly controlled by the government. Singapore has many impediments to religious freedom, and embraces a thoroughly racist system with ID cards requiring race identification, and restrictions on where races can live.

Good post TC.

No need to reply FD, I think I've got it covered for you:

blah blah blah 700 jews beheaded... blah blah blah rape pillage murder... blah blah blah 700 jews beheaded... blah blah blah warmonger thief oppression... blah blah blah - did I mention 700 beheaded jews?

rinse and repeat ad-nauseam...