Australian Politics Forum - Muslims want to silence and intimidate you

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102565 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #75 - May 31^st, 2013 at 1:22pm We should deport all Muslims to some country like Iran - all their friends are there.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #76 - May 31^st, 2013 at 3:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 11:38am:

what is your opinion on the placards in relation to Australian law?

Do you agree with me that they are clear messages of incitement to violence - as per the CRIMES ACT AMENDMENT (INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE) BILL 2005 - and should be prosecuted with the full force of the law?

It could be argued those placards are only reminding us of what happens to those who insult the prophet (pedophile bastard unworthy human) in the homeland of Islam which is Saudi Arabia.

They chop your head off for insulting Mo in Saudi Arabia, they hang you for insulting Mo in Iran, many cases of Mob violence resulting death in Pakistan over perceived insults to your pedo prophet.

Holding a piece of paper is not the same as inciting violence.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #77 - May 31^st, 2013 at 7:55pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 3:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 11:38am:

what is your opinion on the placards in relation to Australian law?

Do you agree with me that they are clear messages of incitement to violence - as per the CRIMES ACT AMENDMENT (INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE) BILL 2005 - and should be prosecuted with the full force of the law?

It could be argued those placards are only reminding us of what happens to those who insult the prophet (pedophile bastard unworthy human) in the homeland of Islam which is Saudi Arabia.

They chop your head off for insulting Mo in Saudi Arabia, they hang you for insulting Mo in Iran, many cases of Mob violence resulting death in Pakistan over perceived insults to your pedo prophet.

Holding a piece of paper is not the same as inciting violence.

Would you care to test that opinion in court? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #78 - May 31^st, 2013 at 9:50pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 7:55pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 3:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 11:38am:

what is your opinion on the placards in relation to Australian law?

Do you agree with me that they are clear messages of incitement to violence - as per the CRIMES ACT AMENDMENT (INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE) BILL 2005 - and should be prosecuted with the full force of the law?

It could be argued those placards are only reminding us of what happens to those who insult the prophet (pedophile bastard unworthy human) in the homeland of Islam which is Saudi Arabia.

They chop your head off for insulting Mo in Saudi Arabia, they hang you for insulting Mo in Iran, many cases of Mob violence resulting death in Pakistan over perceived insults to your pedo prophet.

Holding a piece of paper is not the same as inciting violence.

Would you care to test that opinion in court? Roll Eyes

Thanks to dickheads like you, what decent behaviour is has now become a matter for the courts.

Shared standards, cohesive society - you have buggered it all up by legalising what should not be a matter for the law but for affinity, sympathy, empathy.
But social affinity has been ruled out, and the law has been ushered in. A law of human relationships - how stupid and destructive. But it pleases your agenda because you can't see past you own nose.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #79 - May 31^st, 2013 at 11:47pm

Soren wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 7:55pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 3:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 11:38am:

what is your opinion on the placards in relation to Australian law?

Do you agree with me that they are clear messages of incitement to violence - as per the CRIMES ACT AMENDMENT (INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE) BILL 2005 - and should be prosecuted with the full force of the law?

It could be argued those placards are only reminding us of what happens to those who insult the prophet (pedophile bastard unworthy human) in the homeland of Islam which is Saudi Arabia.

They chop your head off for insulting Mo in Saudi Arabia, they hang you for insulting Mo in Iran, many cases of Mob violence resulting death in Pakistan over perceived insults to your pedo prophet.

Holding a piece of paper is not the same as inciting violence.

Would you care to test that opinion in court? Roll Eyes

Thanks to dickheads like you, what decent behaviour is has now become a matter for the courts.

Shared standards, cohesive society - you have buggered it all up by legalising what should not be a matter for the law but for affinity, sympathy, empathy.
But social affinity has been ruled out, and the law has been ushered in. A law of human relationships - how stupid and destructive. But it pleases your agenda because you can't see past you own nose.

And you would cut it off to spite your face, Soren. Roll Eyes

I was challenging the Baron's claim that, "Holding a piece of paper is not the same as inciting violence."

The means by which the incitement is delivered is unimportant, the message delivered though is.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #80 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 6:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 5:59pm:

I've already explained FD - I support laws that protect people from being vilified on the basis of race/ethnicity/culture/religion. And I also support laws that makes it unlawful to incite violence against groups or individuals.

It just so happens that we have such laws. What this entails exactly is impossible to define until actual incidents are brought forward, and can be judged on a case by case basis. But it is enough for me to state my support for these broad principles - and therefore the law as it stands.

Here's and idea Gandalf. Why don't you make up some examples? Not to demonstrate what our law is of course, but to explain what you think the law should be. The placard example is demonstration enough that what you want is not what the law currently is. It is nothing but a copout to insist that you cannot explain your own views because it is impossible to define them, or because they sound vaguely similar to the principles behind existing laws whose implementation you would like to see changed. You can hardly blame people for mistrusting Muslims when even the most progressive ones want to dismantle freedom of speech, yet offer nothing but excuses when asked about the extent to which our freedoms should be restricted.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #81 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 8:17pm

freediver wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 6:29pm:

You can hardly blame people for mistrusting Muslims when even the most progressive ones want to dismantle freedom of speech, yet offer nothing but excuses when asked about the extent to which our freedoms should be restricted.

So you consider it "mistrustful" of a muslim to state that muslims carrying a placard calling for someone to be beheaded is an outrage and should be illegal?

I am also baffled as to why you don't consider it a specific example of what freedoms should be restricted.

Quote:

Here's and idea Gandalf. Why don't you make up some examples?

How about a white-supremest, anti-islam hate group publishing a newspaper in which they state that all muslims should be rounded up and deported - on the basis that "all muslims are terrorists"?

Or what about someone standing up in the middle of a crowded restaurant and publicly humiliating a muslim couple for their islamic beliefs - say, something like pointing at them and shouting to everyone else "because of these arseholes, our kids are not safe on the street - now are we just going to sit here and let them plot their next attack??", or something along those lines?

Or what about marching in a protest and carrying a placard that says "behead those who insult the prophet"?

Oh wait, I remember now, I've mentioned all three of them already. Roll Eyes

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #82 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 8:30pm

Gandy, you talk as if Islam had nothing to repel the ordinary person.

You talk as if everything disgusting and unacceptable about Islam was not inhering in Islam but in the person being disgusted and repelled. You are blaming the victims.

You need to have a bit more of a tolerant and accommodating stance, I think. You are trampling on the self-esteem of all people who are actually frightened of and intimidated by Islam and find the manner it presents itself to them and to the world totally unacceptable.

You are an islamophobe-phobe. Very intolerant and inconsiderate. Not peaceful at all.i

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #83 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 8:53pm what are you saying Soren - that my first two examples should not be illegal? Try and stay on topic please, and resist the urge to wander off into general rants.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Soren

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #84 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 8:17pm:

How about a white-supremest, anti-islam hate group publishing a newspaper in which they state that all muslims should be rounded up and deported - on the basis that "all muslims are terrorists"?

How about applying the Islamic principle:
Round up all Muslims.
Tell them to convert to Christianity or secularism or Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism, Scientology - or whatever.

If they refuse, tax them extra in Christian and Jewish countries. And extra 30% plus distinctive clothing and the right of humiliating Muslims on the street. Everywhere else, kill them all if they refuse to convert to Hinduism, Buddhism, Scientology, etc.

An impeccably Islamic treatment.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you Reply #85 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:30pm you just can't bring yourself to have a sensible, rational conversation with me can you Soren? Do you have anything to contribute to this topic - vis-a-vis what restrictions to freedom of speech should apply in Australia?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Soren

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #86 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 8:17pm:

Or what about someone standing up in the middle of a crowded restaurant and publicly humiliating a muslim couple for their islamic beliefs - say, something like pointing at them and shouting to everyone else "because of these arseholes, our kids are not safe on the street - now are we just going to sit here and let them plot their next attack??", or something along those lines?

Could there be a case where there would be two arseholes of the Muslim persuasion who are a threat to peace. Are there no Muslim arseholes who are a threat to peace?? Get a grip, Gandy. How many Muslim arseholes do YOU know???

Could I stand up in a restaurant and say all that, pointing to Anjem Choudary and his wife at the next table?

Yes, I could. I should.

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Soren

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #87 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 8:17pm:

Or what about marching in a protest and carrying a placard that says "behead those who insult the prophet"?

How about a march with placards saying something like "arrest and deport all who threaten anyone in the name of Islam".

Or the Islamic version of the same: "Execute all who threaten anyone in the name of Islam". Happy with that?
You should be. Jut applying Islamic principles to Muslims. We are learning from you, be glad.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #88 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:42pm

Soren wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:32pm:

Could there be a case where there would be two arseholes of the Muslim persuasion who are a threat to peace. Are there no Muslim arseholes who are a threat to peace?? Get a grip, Gandy.

Of course, by pure coincidence, the person in my scenario might have found a muslim husband and wife who by chance were indeed plotting a terrorist attack.

Thats not the point though. The scenario serves to highlight an example of someone vilifying, as well as intimidating, an entire group of people, based on nothing more than the way the wife is dressed (the hijab being the only identifiable muslim marker in this case).

The scenario is no different to if it had been a muslim standing up and pointing to a jewish couple (identified by similarly recognisable markers), and made similar intimidatory and vilifying remarks general to the entire jewish community. Would you consider that to be a "freedom" that should be restricted?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Muslims want to silence and intimidate you
Reply #89 - Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:42pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:32pm:

Could there be a case where there would be two arseholes of the Muslim persuasion who are a threat to peace. Are there no Muslim arseholes who are a threat to peace?? Get a grip, Gandy.

Of course, by pure coincidence, the person in my scenario might have found a muslim husband and wife who by chance were indeed plotting a terrorist attack.

Thats not the point though. The scenario serves to highlight an example of someone vilifying, as well as intimidating, an entire group of people, based on nothing more than the way the wife is dressed (the hijab being the only identifiable muslim marker in this case).

The scenario is no different to if it had been a muslim standing up and pointing to a jewish couple (identified by similarly recognisable markers), and made similar intimidatory and vilifying remarks general to the entire jewish community. Would you consider that to be a "freedom" that should be restricted?

You'd die if you had to make your case without mentioning the JEWS.

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