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Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals (Read 5762 times)
Armchair_Politician
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #45 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:22pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 12:52pm:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 12:29pm:
Big Dave wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 12:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 11:57am:
Big Dave wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 5:33am:
Isn't funny how deep down you do-gooders on here want Australia to be the salvation of the world. You won't say it but you all believe that if they make it here you can stay. COME ON EVERYBODY. COME TO GOOD OLD AUS AND WE CAN SING AND DANCE AND WIGGLE IN THE SAND WITH NO CLOTHES ON, WEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!


Exactly. Only Mr Abbott can stop the boats.
Well Labor can't. No they can but they won't.


Dead right, Gillard could have stopped the boats years ago, but has chosen instead to attack Abbott in a vain attempt to score some political points at the expense of the illegal immigrants themselves.


Would that be by "Simply Picking up the Phone to Naru" teaspoon?

Well we have & its done bugger all

Oh we haven't towed any boats back?
I'll bet you $50 right now that by 2016 if Abbott's PM the sum total of returned boats is ZERO.
Did you listen to the Indonesian ambassador the other day or was that filtered out of your news prism of 2GB & the Tele?
Here's a link, bit hard to tow back when Indo doesn't recognize them, sure they'll take the boats & crew but what about the reffo's? The whole smacking purpose of the expensive & dangerous exercise?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/indonesia-rejects-abbott-tow-back-b...

Quote:
THE Indonesian government has confirmed that it would not accept the towing back of asylum seeker boats to its shores, sources say.




Or is it TPV's we need to introduce teaspoon?
I've shown you numerous times before their introduction only changed asylum seekers from men to Women & children complete with figures & graphs from the ABS, are you stupid or have dementia?

Don't bother I already know.


Still can't face raw, hard facts, eh? Simply reinstating offshore processing was never going to work and Abbott has consistently said as much. Labor needs to reintroduce the full suite of policies put in place by Howard, including offshore processing and TPVs. TPVs were extremely effective because they did not lead to permanent residence status and did not allow those who held this visa to take a holiday back home and then return to Australia to continue their claim for asylum. once you left, you could not return. Gillard has refused and must accept the blame for the resulting 40,000 people who have arrived on more than 500 boats since Labor won office. Gillard must also accept that it is her policies that are encouraging people to risk their lives and in some cases, die at sea. You simply can't run away from the truth - the Pacific Solution worked, Rudd made a colossal mistake in dismantling that policy and Gillard has succeeded only in making matters far worse under her Prime Ministership.
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shampain socialist
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #46 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:25pm
 
Shouldn't be any problem at all making it illegal to come to this country without papers, asylum-seeking or not.
Germany has no problem with it apparently. Why does the Labor Party?
All of my forebears were immigrants to this country, some of them seeking asylum from the economic, political and religious tyranny of the British Government. They still had to have papers to get here though. And they got them.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #47 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:38pm
 
Big Dave wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:19pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:15pm:
shampain socialist wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:11pm:
Doesn't matter. They should have papers. Otherwise it's illegal.



Incorrect.

If they are claiming asylum, it's not illegal.



It must be illegal to cram too many people on unseaworthy vessels.



You could be correct.  Seems quite unsafe to me.

However, that doesn't make the people on the boats "illegal immigrants": they remain legal asylum seekers.

People have a legal right to claim asylum no matter what their method of transport is, how they paid for it, how much money they have (or don't have), how much documentation they have (or don't have), or how many criminal convictions they have.

They may not ultimately be granted refugee status, however, they can still legally make a claim for asylum and have that claim assessed.


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FriYAY
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #48 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:44pm
 
Not illegal, but unlawful...

Roll Eyes

Grin
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shampain socialist
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #49 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:45pm
 
and they should make that application in their home countries to the nearest Australian embassy on consulate. Not by getting on a boat without documentation and landing in Australia illegally.
If it isn't illegal already it should be made so.
And if it takes a change of government to get that simple thing achieved, then change the government.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #50 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:50pm
 
FriYAY wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:44pm:
Not illegal, but unlawful...

Roll Eyes

Grin



"unlawful non-citizens", that's correct. 

Not 'unlawful immigrants', or 'unlawful asylum seekers' (there's actually no such thing as an 'unlawful asylum seeker, and asylum seekers aren't actually immigrants at the time of claiming asylum).

This explains it quite well:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_L...
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FriYAY
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #51 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:53pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:50pm:
FriYAY wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:44pm:
Not illegal, but unlawful...

Roll Eyes

Grin



"unlawful non-citizens", that's correct. 

Not 'unlawful immigrants', or 'unlawful asylum seekers' (there's actually no such thing as an 'unlawful asylum seeker, and asylum seekers aren't actually immigrants at the time of claiming asylum).

This explains it quite well:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_L...



Grin Grin Grin


It's not illegal but it dam should be.

Wink
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #52 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:55pm
 
shampain socialist wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
and they should make that application in their home countries to the nearest Australian embassy on consulate. Not by getting on a boat without documentation and landing in Australia illegally.
If it isn't illegal already it should be made so.
And if it takes a change of government to get that simple thing achieved, then change the government.



Judging by that post, it appears that you don't quite understand what an asylum seeker (and refugee) is.

Making an application in their home country is not always possible.

"An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applied for protection as a refugee."

"According to the United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

race
religion
nationality
membership of a particular social group or
political opinion."

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/asylum-seekers-and-refugees
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Alinta
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #53 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:04pm
 
shampain socialist wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
and they should make that application in their home countries to the nearest Australian embassy on consulate. Not by getting on a boat without documentation and landing in Australia illegally.
If it isn't illegal already it should be made so.
And if it takes a change of government to get that simple thing achieved, then change the government.


It is unfortunately not that simple.

I wish Australia could draw its total intake from those in refugee camps, but our international legal obligations dictate otherwise.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #54 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:05pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 2:22pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 12:52pm:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 12:29pm:
Big Dave wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 12:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 11:57am:
Big Dave wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 5:33am:
Isn't funny how deep down you do-gooders on here want Australia to be the salvation of the world. You won't say it but you all believe that if they make it here you can stay. COME ON EVERYBODY. COME TO GOOD OLD AUS AND WE CAN SING AND DANCE AND WIGGLE IN THE SAND WITH NO CLOTHES ON, WEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!


Exactly. Only Mr Abbott can stop the boats.
Well Labor can't. No they can but they won't.


Dead right, Gillard could have stopped the boats years ago, but has chosen instead to attack Abbott in a vain attempt to score some political points at the expense of the illegal immigrants themselves.


Would that be by "Simply Picking up the Phone to Naru" teaspoon?

Well we have & its done bugger all

Oh we haven't towed any boats back?
I'll bet you $50 right now that by 2016 if Abbott's PM the sum total of returned boats is ZERO.
Did you listen to the Indonesian ambassador the other day or was that filtered out of your news prism of 2GB & the Tele?
Here's a link, bit hard to tow back when Indo doesn't recognize them, sure they'll take the boats & crew but what about the reffo's? The whole smacking purpose of the expensive & dangerous exercise?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/indonesia-rejects-abbott-tow-back-b...

Quote:
THE Indonesian government has confirmed that it would not accept the towing back of asylum seeker boats to its shores, sources say.




Or is it TPV's we need to introduce teaspoon?
I've shown you numerous times before their introduction only changed asylum seekers from men to Women & children complete with figures & graphs from the ABS, are you stupid or have dementia?

Don't bother I already know.


Still can't face raw, hard facts, eh? Simply reinstating offshore processing was never going to work and Abbott has consistently said as much. Labor needs to reintroduce the full suite of policies put in place by Howard, including offshore processing and TPVs. TPVs were extremely effective because they did not lead to permanent residence status and did not allow those who held this visa to take a holiday back home and then return to Australia to continue their claim for asylum. once you left, you could not return. Gillard has refused and must accept the blame for the resulting 40,000 people who have arrived on more than 500 boats since Labor won office. Gillard must also accept that it is her policies that are encouraging people to risk their lives and in some cases, die at sea. You simply can't run away from the truth - the Pacific Solution worked, Rudd made a colossal mistake in dismantling that policy and Gillard has succeeded only in making matters far worse under her Prime Ministership.


Yawn, you've ignored the fact I addressed everyone of Abbott's "Suite" of policies.

The Pacific Solution worked in its time, whilst Iraq was still at war, whilst the Tamils were still at war, granted the on going weeping sore of Afghanistan hasn't changed. But given 2 of the 3 largest groups of reffo's has.
Do you think it would still be working?

I'm smacking over you simpletons, Do you really believe all will be as it was in 2005 by electing Abbott, the world has changed & continues to do so.
It will NEVER be 2005 again & in 2016 when the debt level is as big or bigger than now are you still going to try the Its Gillards fault, of course you will or you'll sight debt to GDP pointing out how small a % it is compared to other western economies( without even blinking), because it a football game to you idiots.
bugger the country, my team should always win regardless.

Tony wont stop the boats
He won't tow them back
He may well introduce TPV's again seeing that the only thing he actually has control of, but will you ring your hands for the drowned women & children post Sept, no of course not, you'll revert back to "it's their fault".
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shampain socialist
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #55 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:07pm
 
Oh, the United Nations?
Ok, then change the government (that will happen), get rid of Labor, and change the law... if it needs to be. That will probably happen too.
Germany, I understand, accepts no applications of any type without papers.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #56 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:11pm
 
shampain socialist wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:07pm:
Oh, the United Nations?
Ok, then change the government (that will happen), get rid of Labor, and change the law... if it needs to be. That will probably happen too.
Germany, I understand, accepts no applications of any type without papers.



The Libs aren't going to change it.


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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #57 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:14pm
 
Quote of the thread, from aquascoot:
i hear they like to sew lips together,  they can start on sarah,

Whatever they do, they must stop this muslim invasion for that's quite simply what it is.
95% of the illegal arrivals are muslim, about 40,000 of the potential disruptives. When family reunion is granted that will be doubled or tripled.
Heed the words of Enoch Powell: "blood in the streets"
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shampain socialist
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #58 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:17pm
 
I think it is largely a scam.
How many applications have been made at Australian embassies or consuls in these countries?

The Labor Party hasn't changed it, probably want to bolster their voter base.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Rescuing sinking boatfuls of illegals
Reply #59 - Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:29pm
 
shampain socialist wrote on Jun 11th, 2013 at 3:17pm:
I think it is largely a scam.
How many applications have been made at Australian embassies or consuls in these countries?



Roll Eyes

You are confusing 'asylum seeking' with normal 'immigration'.

"It is often too dangerous for refugees to apply for a passport or exit visa or approach an Australian Embassy for a visa, as such actions could put their lives, and the lives of their families, at risk."

http://www.refugeeweek.org.au/resources/2012_RW_ResourceKit_Ch4.pdf
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