Australian Politics Forum - Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote

polite_gandalf

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Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Jun 13^th, 2013 at 4:04pm

Quote:

Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote

By NATALIYA VASILYEVA and MANSUR MIROVALEV Associated Press
MOSCOW June 11, 2013 (AP)

A bill that stigmatizes gay people and bans giving children any information about homosexuality won overwhelming approval Tuesday in Russia's lower house of parliament.

Hours before the State Duma passed the Kremlin-backed law in a 436-0 vote with one abstention, more than two dozen protesters were attacked by hundreds of anti-gay activists and then detained by police.

The bill banning the "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" still needs to be passed by the appointed upper house and signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, but neither step is in doubt.

The measure is part of an effort to promote traditional Russian values instead of Western liberalism, which the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church see as corrupting Russian youth and contributing to the protests against Putin's rule.

The only parliament member to abstain Tuesday was Ilya Ponomaryov, who has supported anti-Putin protesters despite belonging to a pro-Kremlin party.

A widespread hostility to homosexuality is shared by much of Russia's political and religious elite. Lawmakers have accused gays of decreasing Russia's already low birth rates and said they should be barred from government jobs, undergo forced medical treatment or be exiled.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russian-parliament-vote-anti-gay-b...

This is some disturbing sh!t. A text book example of top-down persecution of a minority. The thuggery against gays on the streets of Russia is merely following the example set by the legislators.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote Reply #1 - Jun 13^th, 2013 at 10:41pm Put your wanger away if you are disturbed. You don't bugger with Vlad the Impaler.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #2 - Jun 13^th, 2013 at 11:00pm

Vlad the impaler was Hungarian, not Russian.

Anyway, there seems to be a particularly virulent homophobia within the Russian orthodox church, and they are twisting the arms of Russian politicians. The government is also pandering to a populist anti-western sentiment.

And between the church and the government, homophobia and gay persecution seems to have well and trully filtered down into the grassroots level.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Adamant

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #3 - Jun 13^th, 2013 at 11:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2013 at 11:00pm:

Vlad the impaler was Hungarian, not Russian.

Anyway, there seems to be a particularly virulent homophobia within the Russian orthodox church, and they are twisting the arms of Russian politicians. The government is also pandering to a populist anti-western sentiment.

And between the church and the government, homophobia and gay persecution seems to have well and trully filtered down into the grassroots level.

Vlad the impaler tried to keep the muslim barbarians out of his homeland. We desperately require someone of his skills in the west today!

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote Reply #4 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 12:07am Vlad The Put-in (not-yet quite an Impaler) is Russsshhhhian but he is trying to grow into the role, as it were. Has divorced Ludmilla for starters. He must be in Karnal's rolodex already, fo' sho'.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #5 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2013 at 4:04pm:

Quote:

Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote

By NATALIYA VASILYEVA and MANSUR MIROVALEV Associated Press
MOSCOW June 11, 2013 (AP)

A bill that stigmatizes gay people and bans giving children any information about homosexuality won overwhelming approval Tuesday in Russia's lower house of parliament.

Hours before the State Duma passed the Kremlin-backed law in a 436-0 vote with one abstention, more than two dozen protesters were attacked by hundreds of anti-gay activists and then detained by police.

The bill banning the "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" still needs to be passed by the appointed upper house and signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, but neither step is in doubt.

The measure is part of an effort to promote traditional Russian values instead of Western liberalism, which the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church see as corrupting Russian youth and contributing to the protests against Putin's rule.

The only parliament member to abstain Tuesday was Ilya Ponomaryov, who has supported anti-Putin protesters despite belonging to a pro-Kremlin party.

A widespread hostility to homosexuality is shared by much of Russia's political and religious elite. Lawmakers have accused gays of decreasing Russia's already low birth rates and said they should be barred from government jobs, undergo forced medical treatment or be exiled.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russian-parliament-vote-anti-gay-b...

This is some disturbing sh!t. A text book example of top-down persecution of a minority. The thuggery against gays on the streets of Russia is merely following the example set by the legislators.

The wider significance of this is that Russia is willing to make strong decisions that go against postmodern thinking. Russia is showing it won't descend into nihilism like the Western states have.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The states of Eastern Europe will become a power to be reckoned with in the future.

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Karnal

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #6 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:43pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2013 at 4:04pm:

Quote:

Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote

By NATALIYA VASILYEVA and MANSUR MIROVALEV Associated Press
MOSCOW June 11, 2013 (AP)

A bill that stigmatizes gay people and bans giving children any information about homosexuality won overwhelming approval Tuesday in Russia's lower house of parliament.

Hours before the State Duma passed the Kremlin-backed law in a 436-0 vote with one abstention, more than two dozen protesters were attacked by hundreds of anti-gay activists and then detained by police.

The bill banning the "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" still needs to be passed by the appointed upper house and signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, but neither step is in doubt.

The measure is part of an effort to promote traditional Russian values instead of Western liberalism, which the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church see as corrupting Russian youth and contributing to the protests against Putin's rule.

The only parliament member to abstain Tuesday was Ilya Ponomaryov, who has supported anti-Putin protesters despite belonging to a pro-Kremlin party.

A widespread hostility to homosexuality is shared by much of Russia's political and religious elite. Lawmakers have accused gays of decreasing Russia's already low birth rates and said they should be barred from government jobs, undergo forced medical treatment or be exiled.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russian-parliament-vote-anti-gay-b...

This is some disturbing sh!t. A text book example of top-down persecution of a minority. The thuggery against gays on the streets of Russia is merely following the example set by the legislators.

The wider significance of this is that Russia is willing to make strong decisions that go against postmodern thinking. Russia is showing it won't descend into nihilism like the Western states have.

Gee, you're right there, Mistie. Russia is showing it is prepared to return to premodern thinking in their "election" of a Tzar - if not another Stalin.

Let's learn from the Russians, eh?

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote Reply #7 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:48pm The willingness to confidently posit a law, a tradition, or an ethic and project it into the future sure beats a culture that revels in self-castigation and mollycoddling.
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Karnal

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #8 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 2:08pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

The willingness to confidently posit a law, a tradition, or an ethic and project it into the future sure beats a culture that revels in self-castigation and mollycoddling.

What if it's a law, a tradition, or an ethic you disagree with, Mistie?

I've noticed Sharia law is not too popular around here at the moment.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote Reply #9 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 2:29pm Not surprising - Russia has already ived through the horrors of Marxism, and won't be going back for more. Meanwhile in the west, we learned nothing from their mistakes so are doomed torepeat them.
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Chard

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #10 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 2:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13^th, 2013 at 11:00pm:

Vlad the impaler was Hungarian, not Russian.

Anyway, there seems to be a particularly virulent homophobia within the Russian orthodox church, and they are twisting the arms of Russian politicians. The government is also pandering to a populist anti-western sentiment.

And between the church and the government, homophobia and gay persecution seems to have well and trully filtered down into the grassroots level.

The real arm twisting is all on Putin's part. The man has a track record of orchestrating poo like this against groups or individuals he doesn't personally like. It's also not much of a surprise that Russia did this. They're some of the homophobic people on earth. Hell, they're one of the very few nations out there whose top ten internet porn search terms doesn't have any LGBT searches at all.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Karnal

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #11 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 2:58pm

... wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

Not surprising - Russia has already ived through the horrors of Marxism, and won't be going back for more. Meanwhile in the west, we learned nothing from their mistakes so are doomed torepeat them.

What are you on? Putin’s inspiration is Stalin. He was a KGB officer and heavily committed to socialism and the USSR.

Putin’s support is a reaction to the privatization/neoliberalism of the Yeltsin years. Putin is slowly nationalizing Russian industry and mines again - this is his support base; the proletariat.

To do this, Putin leans on his carefully selected oligarchs. It’s closer to Fascism than communism, but whatever floats your boat.

Putin would return to centrally-planned Stalinism in a flash.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #12 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 3:07pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

The wider significance of this is that Russia is willing to make strong decisions that go against postmodern thinking. Russia is showing it won't descend into nihilism like the Western states have.

You say that as if its somehow a sign of strength, or something positive to institutionalise the persecution of a significant minority - consisting of anywhere up to 10% of any given population. I don't think you have to be "postmodern" or a western neo-liberal to think that such an approach is narrow minded, short sighted and ultimately self-defeating. You talk about Russia refusing to be mollycoddled - and yet that is exactly what the government is doing - being mollycoddled by powerful right wing christian fundamentalist interest groups. If you think this is Putin taking a principled stand you are sadly mistaken. Putin is being every bit as hypocritical and cynical as what you allege the western neo-liberal governments as being.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #13 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 4:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 3:07pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

The wider significance of this is that Russia is willing to make strong decisions that go against postmodern thinking. Russia is showing it won't descend into nihilism like the Western states have.

You say that as if its somehow a sign of strength, or something positive to institutionalise the persecution of a significant minority - consisting of anywhere up to 10% of any given population. I don't think you have to be "postmodern" or a western neo-liberal to think that such an approach is narrow minded, short sighted and ultimately self-defeating. You talk about Russia refusing to be mollycoddled - and yet that is exactly what the government is doing - being mollycoddled by powerful right wing christian fundamentalist interest groups. If you think this is Putin taking a principled stand you are sadly mistaken. Putin is being every bit as hypocritical and cynical as what you allege the western neo-liberal governments as being.

Every society, culture, and/or civilization persecutes, marginalizes, and/or creates an 'other'. Russia, in this instance, is willing to put the dominant ideas held by his people first, and not yield to a minority group. Western countries, by contrast, bend over backward to accommodate almost every strange and obscure fetish there is, thus marginalizing the dominant group, but using such slogans like 'tolerance' and 'equality' to cover over their own attempts at marginalization.

Russia obviously doesn't care for your finger-wagging moralization like "narrow minded, short sighted and ultimately self-defeating". Such words can be used to denigrate any group.

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Karnal

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Re: Russian Lawmakers Pass Anti-Gay Bill in 436-0 Vote
Reply #14 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 4:59pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 4:00pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 3:07pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

The wider significance of this is that Russia is willing to make strong decisions that go against postmodern thinking. Russia is showing it won't descend into nihilism like the Western states have.

You say that as if its somehow a sign of strength, or something positive to institutionalise the persecution of a significant minority - consisting of anywhere up to 10% of any given population. I don't think you have to be "postmodern" or a western neo-liberal to think that such an approach is narrow minded, short sighted and ultimately self-defeating. You talk about Russia refusing to be mollycoddled - and yet that is exactly what the government is doing - being mollycoddled by powerful right wing christian fundamentalist interest groups. If you think this is Putin taking a principled stand you are sadly mistaken. Putin is being every bit as hypocritical and cynical as what you allege the western neo-liberal governments as being.

Every society, culture, and/or civilization persecutes, marginalizes, and/or creates an 'other'. Russia, in this instance, is willing to put the dominant ideas held by his people first, and not yield to a minority group. Western countries, by contrast, bend over backward to accommodate almost every strange and obscure fetish there is, thus marginalizing the dominant group, but using such slogans like 'tolerance' and 'equality' to cover over their own attempts at marginalization.

Russia obviously doesn't care for your finger-wagging moralization like "narrow minded, short sighted and ultimately self-defeating". Such words can be used to denigrate any group.

I agree, Mistie. Finger-waving moralizing like this?

The willingness to confidently posit a law, a tradition, or an ethic and project it into the future sure beats a culture that revels in self-castigation and mollycoddling.

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