Australian Politics Forum - Abbott To Scrap RET?

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Abbott To Scrap RET?
Jun 14^th, 2013 at 8:34am

Top Abbott business adviser wants renewables target scrapped

The chairman of Tony Abbott’s proposed business advisory council, Maurice Newman, has called for the renewable energy target (RET) to be scrapped because he believes the scientific evidence for global warming and the economic case for renewable energy no longer stack up.

Newman, the former chairman of the ABC and the ASX, said persisting with government subsidies for renewable energy represented a “crime against the people” because higher energy costs hit poorer households the hardest and there was no longer any logical reason to have them.

Newman acknowledged Coalition policy was to retain the current target to generate 20% of renewable energy by 2020, but told Guardian Australia in his opinion “the whole science on which this is based is somewhat in tatters”.

more here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/abbott-business-adviser-renewables-t...

More reason for coalition voters to vote Greens in the senate so to protect the renewable energy target.

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Abbott To Scrap RET? Reply #1 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 8:44am More reason for responsible Labor and Greens voters to vote for the Coalition.
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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Abbott To Scrap RET? Reply #2 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 8:50am Off the top of my head, Green support for renewable energy is in the low 90 percentage. And the majority of Greens voters being the highly intelligent type, why would they vote conservative and so voting for carbon pollution and higher cost of living pressures from this. Only a dummy conservative voter would do that.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #3 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:04am

____ wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 8:50am:

Off the top of my head, Green support for renewable energy is in the low 90 percentage.

And the majority of Greens voters being the highly intelligent type, why would they vote conservative and so voting for carbon pollution and higher cost of living pressures from this.

Only a dummy conservative voter would do that.

This is why..
"said persisting with government subsidies for renewable energy represented a “crime against the people” because higher energy costs hit poorer households the hardest and there was no longer any logical reason to have them.

If any Greens voters are intelligent, and if they care about helping the poorer households, then they should agree to scrap RET.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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BlOoDy RiPpEr

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #4 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:04am

Renewable energy is to expensive and disadvantages poorer Australians, This is the one of the many things that shows the greens off as hypocrites. They claim to want to help the poor but have no problem disadvantaging those on low incomes forcing them to subsidies those who can afford renewable energy. Its a bit like the part about them wanting to care for the enviroment but have no problem flooding Australia with more migrants so it has a higher impact on the inviroment.

Australia has a cheap natural resource to produce energy, yet thanks to green groups Australians are forced to pay more for energy then our neighbours who are using our coal at a much more afforable rate to its people. Its clear The Greens want Australians to do it tough while wealthy nations like China get to adance their position at Australia's expence.

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #5 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:17am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:04am:

____ wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 8:50am:

Off the top of my head, Green support for renewable energy is in the low 90 percentage.

And the majority of Greens voters being the highly intelligent type, why would they vote conservative and so voting for carbon pollution and higher cost of living pressures from this.

Only a dummy conservative voter would do that.

This is why..
"said persisting with government subsidies for renewable energy represented a “crime against the people” because higher energy costs hit poorer households the hardest and there was no longer any logical reason to have them.

If any Greens voters are intelligent, and if they care about helping the poorer households, then they should agree to scrap RET.

Renewable power now cheaper than coal, gas

According to a report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF), wind power is now cheaper to produce than coal by up to 44 per cent.

After extensive research modelling the cost of generating electricity in Australia, Bloomberg New Energy Finace's Sydney team has concluded that unsubsidised renewable energy is cheaper to produce than coal or gas energy in Australia — one of the world's largest coal producers.

In a statement released 7 February, BNEF revealed that electricity from a wind farm can be produced at a cost of AU$80 per megawatt hour — compared to AU$143/MWh for a new coal plant and AU$116/MWh for a new gas plant — 44 per cent and 31 per cent less, respectively.

That calculation includes carbon pricing; however, even when you take carbon pricing away, wind energy is still cheaper than coal by 14 per cent and gas by 18 per cent. These figures also account for the cost of building new stations.

RET is a fast path to lower electricity prices for homes and businesses.

Cheaper electricity for business increases their profitability and so increased their opportunity to create more jobs.

Alongside, renewable energy is an important part of lowering Australia's carbon footprint. With Abbott's team wanting to dump RET, does this mean Abbott's carbon pollution target is a lie?

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____

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #6 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:19am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:04am:

Renewable energy is to expensive and disadvantages poorer Australians, This is the one of the many things that shows the greens off as hypocrites. They claim to want to help the poor but have no problem disadvantaging those on low incomes forcing them to subsidies those who can afford renewable energy. Its a bit like the part about them wanting to care for the enviroment but have no problem flooding Australia with more migrants so it has a higher impact on the inviroment.

Australia has a cheap natural resource to produce energy, yet thanks to green groups Australians are forced to pay more for energy then our neighbours who are using our coal at a much more afforable rate to its people. Its clear The Greens want Australians to do it tough while wealthy nations like China get to adance their position at Australia's expence.

www.cnet.com.au/renewable-power-now-cheaper-than-coal-gas-339343246.htm

Renewable power now cheaper than coal, gas

Conservatives want higher costing fossil fuel electricity prices locked in.

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BlOoDy RiPpEr Gold Member Offline aussie-patriot.com Posts: 2475 Sydney Gender:	Re: Abbott To Scrap RET? Reply #7 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:34am Wind farms have a higher environmental impact then coal fired power plants. they create devastation to native wildlife, excessive noise pollution, require more land clearings and on top of that are a bloody eye sore. And lets not forget, they only work when its windy so that make them unreliable.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59448 Here Gender:	Re: Abbott To Scrap RET? Reply #8 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:41am Abbotts direct action is a pretence to meet a target that they want to remove ???? And they want to be taken seriously on climate control.
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____

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #9 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:42am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:34am:

Wind farms have a higher environmental impact then coal fired power plants. they create devastation to native wildlife, excessive noise pollution, require more land clearings and on top of that are a bloody eye sore. And lets not forget, they only work when its windy so that make them unreliable.

Empty coal wagons 'worst for dust'

RAIL industry insiders say more coal is lost from supposedly "empty" wagons than full ones and the impact of coal dust on track and rolling stock maintenance is a major cost.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1572041/empty-coal-wagons-worst-for-dust/?cs=1...

Harbour spill remains mystery, GPC points to coal fines

AN INVESTIGATION by the Gladstone Ports Corporation into photographs of an alleged oil spill in Gladstone harbour has revealed the substance to be coal fines.

Coal fines are the small particles of coal material that are washed-off the coal during the preparation plant process.

http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/news/harbour-spill-remains-mystery/1907115/

and then there are those open cut coal mines

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #10 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:47am

____ wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:17am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:04am:

____ wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 8:50am:

Off the top of my head, Green support for renewable energy is in the low 90 percentage.

And the majority of Greens voters being the highly intelligent type, why would they vote conservative and so voting for carbon pollution and higher cost of living pressures from this.

Only a dummy conservative voter would do that.

This is why..
"said persisting with government subsidies for renewable energy represented a “crime against the people” because higher energy costs hit poorer households the hardest and there was no longer any logical reason to have them.

If any Greens voters are intelligent, and if they care about helping the poorer households, then they should agree to scrap RET.

Renewable power now cheaper than coal, gas

According to a report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF), wind power is now cheaper to produce than coal by up to 44 per cent.

After extensive research modelling the cost of generating electricity in Australia, Bloomberg New Energy Finace's Sydney team has concluded that unsubsidised renewable energy is cheaper to produce than coal or gas energy in Australia — one of the world's largest coal producers.

In a statement released 7 February, BNEF revealed that electricity from a wind farm can be produced at a cost of AU$80 per megawatt hour — compared to AU$143/MWh for a new coal plant and AU$116/MWh for a new gas plant — 44 per cent and 31 per cent less, respectively.

That calculation includes carbon pricing; however, even when you take carbon pricing away, wind energy is still cheaper than coal by 14 per cent and gas by 18 per cent. These figures also account for the cost of building new stations.

RET is a fast path to lower electricity prices for homes and businesses.

Cheaper electricity for business increases their profitability and so increased their opportunity to create more jobs.

Alongside, renewable energy is an important part of lowering Australia's carbon footprint. With Abbott's team wanting to dump RET, does this mean Abbott's carbon pollution target is a lie?

and looking at the detail we find that these figures include a very significant carbon pricing amount well in excess of our current CT. this artificially inflates the cost of coal. Plus it is the cost for building NEW plants and not using the existing ones. In other words, it is the kind of nonsense comparison where it takes a best case scenario for Wind and a worst case scenario for coal.

it also ignores base-load issues and the massive area for wind farms. it also conveniently totally ignores the cost of distribution because wind farms are located where wind is good regardless of the transmission suitability. Lower Eyre Peninsular in SA has the biggest wind farm in the country but the transmission infrastructure is inadequate meaning it can only operate at 16% of max load. the cost of new transmission capacity is $1.5B-$2.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #11 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:49am

Dnarever wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

Abbotts direct action is a pretence to meet a target that they want to remove ????

And they want to be taken seriously on climate control.

use ur brain (if you can find it). This is nothing more than ONE PERSONS commentary on the issue. Unlike the ALP, Liberal members are allowed to express their own opinions without rebuke.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #12 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:51am

____ wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:42am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:34am:

Wind farms have a higher environmental impact then coal fired power plants. they create devastation to native wildlife, excessive noise pollution, require more land clearings and on top of that are a bloody eye sore. And lets not forget, they only work when its windy so that make them unreliable.

Empty coal wagons 'worst for dust'

RAIL industry insiders say more coal is lost from supposedly "empty" wagons than full ones and the impact of coal dust on track and rolling stock maintenance is a major cost.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1572041/empty-coal-wagons-worst-for-dust/?cs=1...

Harbour spill remains mystery, GPC points to coal fines

AN INVESTIGATION by the Gladstone Ports Corporation into photographs of an alleged oil spill in Gladstone harbour has revealed the substance to be coal fines.

Coal fines are the small particles of coal material that are washed-off the coal during the preparation plant process.

http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/news/harbour-spill-remains-mystery/1907115/

and then there are those open cut coal mines

hey dopey... the major cost of constructing a wind tower is steel and cement. guess what a major component of that is? COAL.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #13 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 10:00am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:49am:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

Abbotts direct action is a pretence to meet a target that they want to remove ????

And they want to be taken seriously on climate control.

use ur brain (if you can find it). This is nothing more than ONE PERSONS commentary on the issue. Unlike the ALP, Liberal members are allowed to express their own opinions without rebuke.

The opinion of the person being paid to give the opposition policy advice in this area.

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____

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Re: Abbott To Scrap RET?
Reply #14 - Jun 14^th, 2013 at 10:39am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:51am:

____ wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:42am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jun 14^th, 2013 at 9:34am:

Wind farms have a higher environmental impact then coal fired power plants. they create devastation to native wildlife, excessive noise pollution, require more land clearings and on top of that are a bloody eye sore. And lets not forget, they only work when its windy so that make them unreliable.

Empty coal wagons 'worst for dust'

RAIL industry insiders say more coal is lost from supposedly "empty" wagons than full ones and the impact of coal dust on track and rolling stock maintenance is a major cost.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1572041/empty-coal-wagons-worst-for-dust/?cs=1...

Harbour spill remains mystery, GPC points to coal fines

AN INVESTIGATION by the Gladstone Ports Corporation into photographs of an alleged oil spill in Gladstone harbour has revealed the substance to be coal fines.

Coal fines are the small particles of coal material that are washed-off the coal during the preparation plant process.

http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/news/harbour-spill-remains-mystery/1907115/

and then there are those open cut coal mines

hey dopey... the major cost of constructing a wind tower is steel and cement. guess what a major component of that is? COAL.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cleaner-cheaper-way-to-make-ste...

Using cheaper and cleaner green electricity from sources like wind, we can use electrolysis to make metals has several advantages over a blast furnace. The resulting metals are purer because there are fewer contaminants introduced in the process. "The electrolytic route actually consumes less energy," Sadoway noted, adding that it can be 30 percent more efficient than conventional methods.

For someone who pretends to be a know all, you are lagging in the knowledge department. Coal and their support base are going the way of the dinosaurs.

...

In his article, Fray also suggested that metal electrolysis could be used to produce oxygen on other planets, "making human colonization of the Solar System more feasible."

Researching green options opens new doors into the advancement of humanity. No wonder conservatives are fighting green science ... they want us living underground to escape their carbon pollution apocalypse .

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