Australian Politics Forum - Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan

polite_gandalf

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #15 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 6:56pm

We should be able to clear this up datalife - just show me the islamic text (quran, hadith or sunna) that states its ok to slaughter a group of muslim women for going to school.

Or alternatively, I can point you to a whole swag of texts pertaining to things like:

a) women having a duty - not a right, but a duty - to have an education
b) muslims not killing other muslims
c) muslims not killing women and children
d) muslims engaging in non-state sanctioned, vigilante type violence

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Datalife

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #16 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

We should be able to clear this up datalife - just show me the islamic text (quran, hadith or sunna) that states its ok to slaughter a group of muslim women for going to school.

Or alternatively, I can point you to a whole swag of texts pertaining to things like:

a) women having a duty - not a right, but a duty - to have an education
b) muslims not killing other muslims
c) muslims not killing women and children
d) muslims engaging in non-state sanctioned, vigilante type violence

I am sure there are none, at least none that would work as a religious permission for me or you. But yes, to clear this up, if someone commits acts of terror (or good) inspired and comforted by a religion, who takes solace in that religion and that what they are doing is holy and a religious duty and devotion I am inclined to believe them. They may be deluded, they may have (according to you or me) the interpretations wrong, but no matter, they are convinced that what they are doing is endorsed by god, blessed in the endeavour by teachers at the madrass, encouraged by peers and as a bonus a martyrs fast track into heaven.

And yet you come along, all sort of Monty Python it seems to me, opining that, and get this, even if, no matter what they say, and the reasons they use and the instructions that led them to commit terrorism are from Islam, this has nothing at all, nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Cheesy

Are you smacking kidding me? Is that the best argument you can muster? Move along, nuffin; to do wiv Islam 'ere mate. Get a grip. That is pathetic. Nuffin to do wiv Islam?

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« Last Edit: Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:39pm by Datalife »

"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Datalife

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #17 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

We should be able to clear this up datalife - just show me the islamic text (quran, hadith or sunna) that states its ok to slaughter a group of muslim women for going to school.

Or alternatively, I can point you to a whole swag of texts pertaining to things like:

a) women having a duty - not a right, but a duty - to have an education
b) muslims not killing other muslims
c) muslims not killing women and children
d) muslims engaging in non-state sanctioned, vigilante type violence

Oh and PS, you have set yourself up onto a slippery slide if you maintain that if something is approved in the Islamic text then it is ok to do it which you seem to have done with this sort of argument.

Or maybe you could accept that it is a religious text that is not internally consistent, contains contradictions and can be interpreted many different ways and to justify different events and perspectives?

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Yadda

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #18 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 8:59pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

We should be able to clear this up datalife

just show me the islamic text (quran, hadith or sunna) that states its ok to slaughter a group of muslim women for going to school.

Q.
Does ISLAM justify [and encourage] the murder of ANY PERSONS, for example, those school girls who were the victims, in the Quetta blasts ?

A.
YES, it does!

gandalf,

You would know very well, that any moslem girls going to a secular [un-ISLAMIC] school, would, and could, be counted by moslems as an act a crime of apostasy - and therefore that circumstance [of any person seeking un-ISLAMIC knowledge/education] would make those school girls worthy of death.

TRUTH;
ISLAM obligates every moslem to fight to either enslave or murder those who resist ISLAM's authority.

Such an act of fighting, is called JIHAD, or, fighting 'in Allah's cause' [the cause of imposing ISLAM upon all mankind].

http://quran.com/9/111
9:111
Muhsin Khan
Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed.....

Mark Durie [link below] explains, that in Koran 2:191 [Allah] declares that unbelief is a worse crime than murder.

http://quran.com/2/191
2:191
Muhsin Khan
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

And Allah therefore justifies murdering, men, women, or children, who choose to embrace unbelief - instead of belief in Allah.

ISLAMIC law authorises that anyone can be killed [by moslems] fighting 'in Allah's cause'.

But the 'innocent', must never be knowingly killed.

Q.
WHAT CONSTITUTES "INNOCENCE" IN ISLAM?

A.
For an explanation of how moslems can 'intellectually' [i.e. 'religiously'] justify the slaughters we see daily,
read......

Violence and Context in Islamic Texts
http://www.meforum.org/3537/violence-islamic-texts
Quote:

Mark Durie -
.......The key question, then, is what constitutes "innocence" in Islam? As it happens, the expression "fitnah is worse than killing" in verse 191 provides the key to finding an answer. Ibn Kathir has this to say:

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said: "And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing." Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing. Abu Al-Aliyah, Mujahid, Said bin Jubayr, Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi bin Anas [Muslim authorities] said that what Allah said: "And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing." [means] "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing." [Emphasis added. Parentheses in text. Bracketed parts, the author's.]

......What then does it mean when the Koran says that "fitnah is worse than killing"? According to Ibn Kathir, to disbelieve in Allah is to be guilty of the crime of shirk or, as he puts it, "committing disbelief." Shirk, he says, is fitnah, the crime worse than killing. Just being a non-Muslim -- a Christian, a Jew or a pagan -- is worse than murder.

This is not a peaceful verse. It has been cited, for example, by leading Muslim legal authorities such as the Grand Mufti of Jordan, His Excellency Shaykh Said Hijjawi, in order to justify killing "apostates," people who choose to convert out of Islam. Such a decision threatens Muslims' faith, and must, according to the Grand Mufti, be met with the death penalty, because the shirk, or disbelief, of apostasy is worse than killing.

ISLAMIC doctrine declares that only moslems, are the 'innocent'.

+++

You declare yourself to be a moslem, gandalf.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

ISLAM is a lawlessness, which you excuse, support, and defend, gandalf.

You are culpable, in facilitating moslem violence against those who reject ISLAM.

ISLAM [notwithstanding your incessant denials] promotes and encourages violence, as a means to impose ISLAM's authority upon those not within the moslem 'camp'.

Any act of violence, any act of evil, is justified by ISLAM, in promoting ISLAM's interests in the world.

Because those acts of violence, and acts of evil, are always made 'lawful' by ISLAM, precisely because those acts promote ISLAM's interests in the world.

AND EVERY MOSLEM IS CULPABLE - IN THOSE CRIMES, COMMITTED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

The victims of ISLAMIC violence, are the victims of ISLAMIC lawlessness [a violence, pretending to be a 'lawfully' provoked violence], a violence which you [as a moslem] refuse to acknowledge any responsibility for.

ISLAM is responsible for a lawlessness [a lawless violence], which you excuse, support, and defend, gandalf.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan Reply #19 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 9:14pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 6:29pm: damn. You got me there Honky. Its true, I admit it - I really only pretended to condemn this to keep my secret support for these sorts of acts concealed. Sinister person I am. Are you reading this ASIO? We have a confession.
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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14169 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan Reply #20 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 9:58pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2013 at 8:45pm: I certainly hope that honest, God fearing muslims stand up and speak out against this sort of crime. They DO - OFTEN - even in relation to MINOR skirmishes ( ... but, apparently, such declarations don't make for very exciting news copy)
Back to top	'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.' - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #21 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:21pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2013 at 8:45pm:

I certainly hope that honest, God fearing muslims stand up and speak out against this sort of crime.

They DO - OFTEN - even in relation to MINOR skirmishes

( ... but, apparently, such declarations don't make for very exciting news copy)

Your words are LIES.

I doubt that we will EVER see a moslem, condemn the violent actions, of another moslem(s).

Because such condemnations are unlawful for a moslem.

This is about as good as it is ever going to get, in the 'condemnation' we will see.....

Does Gandalf's opinion exactly match our law?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1369741636/45#45
Quote:

Quote:

THESE [below] ARE THE WORDS THAT WERE BROADCAST ON NATIONAL TV IN AUSTRALIA [AFTER MOSLEM PROTESTERS CARRIED PLACARDS IN THE SYDNEY CBD, CALLING FOR THE BEHEADING OF THOSE THAT OFFEND MOSLEMS/INSULT ISLAM];

"It is an 'image' that we condemn. Unequivocally. We are very stressed to see such images."

<----- I do not know how that video report was edited by Channel 7, but in those words [presented in the Channel 7 video report], the spokesman for the Sydney moslem community could have been referring to >> the police << behaviour, in 'confronting' moslems, on the streets of Sydney.

e.g. The very next statement [by the very same spokesman], for the Sydney moslem community, demonstrates just how ambiguous the statements [that were presented in the Channel 7 video report] from the Sydney moslem community were, regarding the protest 'incident' involving moslems in the Sydney CBD !!;

"The majority of the Australian moslem community, particularly the mainstream, have not and will not educate our children in a way that ISLAM does not believe in."

That is a very ambiguous statement, to anyone who is familiar with what ISLAM does 'allow' [to be taught to moslem children] !

The moslem woman in the video report, merely states that she wants all of the attention about this incident to go away.

YT
Muslim leaders 'call for calm' goto 1m 40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyKXA2b9WI4

Q.

What did the spokesman, for the Sydney moslem community actually say ???

A.

"The majority of the Australian moslem community, particularly the mainstream, have not and will not educate our children .....in a way that ISLAM does not believe in."

Just as Anjem declares - truthfully in this YT;

YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #22 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:30pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:21pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2013 at 8:45pm:

I certainly hope that honest, God fearing muslims stand up and speak out against this sort of crime.

They DO - OFTEN - even in relation to MINOR skirmishes

( ... but, apparently, such declarations don't make for very exciting news copy)

Your words are LIES.

I doubt that we will EVER see a moslem, condemn the violent actions, of another moslem(s).

Because such condemnations are unlawful for a moslem.

Any moslem, who would publicly condemn the violent actions, of any other moslem [or group of moslems], would, in effect, be declaring his own apostasy to all other moslems.

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Please watch this YT...

Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #23 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:36pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:21pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2013 at 8:45pm:

I certainly hope that honest, God fearing muslims stand up and speak out against this sort of crime.

They DO - OFTEN - even in relation to MINOR skirmishes

( ... but, apparently, such declarations don't make for very exciting news copy)

Your words are LIES.

I doubt that we will EVER see a moslem, condemn the violent actions, of another moslem(s).

Because such condemnations are unlawful for a moslem.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood Condemns Boston Marathon Bombings

04/16/13 04:38

CAIRO — Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood condemned the Boston Marathon bombings Tuesday, but a senior member of the group painted them as part of a conspiracy aimed at undermining Muslims' moves toward democracy.

In a statement by the Brotherhood's political arm, the Freedom and Justice party, the group said Islamic law, or Shariah, does not condone violence against civilians, and expressed condolences to the American people and families of the victims.

The party also said that Islamic law "firmly rejects assaults on civilians and doesn't accept any means of terrorizing people, regardless of their religion, color, or gender."

"The sinful assaults in Boston ascertain the necessity of solidarity of the international community in efforts to achieve justice and well-being for all nations and communities, and to ensure that these crimes don't take place again," the statement said.

The office of President Mohammed Morsi, who hails from the Brotherhood, also condemned the bombings, calling them "criminal" and expressing solidarity with the families of the victims.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/egypts-muslim-brotherhood_n_3092135.htm...

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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Yadda

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Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
Reply #24 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:55pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:36pm:

Yadda wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:21pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 16^th, 2013 at 8:45pm:

I certainly hope that honest, God fearing muslims stand up and speak out against this sort of crime.

They DO - OFTEN - even in relation to MINOR skirmishes

( ... but, apparently, such declarations don't make for very exciting news copy)

Your words are LIES.

I doubt that we will EVER see a moslem, condemn the violent actions, of another moslem(s).

Because such condemnations are unlawful for a moslem.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood Condemns Boston Marathon Bombings

04/16/13 04:38

CAIRO — Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood condemned the Boston Marathon bombings Tuesday, but a senior member of the group painted them as part of a conspiracy aimed at undermining Muslims' moves toward democracy.

In a statement by the Brotherhood's political arm, the Freedom and Justice party, the group said Islamic law, or Shariah, does not condone violence against civilians, and expressed condolences to the American people and families of the victims.

The party also said that Islamic law "firmly rejects assaults on civilians and doesn't accept any means of terrorizing people, regardless of their religion, color, or gender."

"The sinful assaults in Boston ascertain the necessity of solidarity of the international community in efforts to achieve justice and well-being for all nations and communities, and to ensure that these crimes don't take place again," the statement said.

The office of President Mohammed Morsi, who hails from the Brotherhood, also condemned the bombings, calling them "criminal" and expressing solidarity with the families of the victims.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/egypts-muslim-brotherhood_n_3092135.htm...

buzzanddidj,

Well, i stand corrected.

And if that Muslim Brotherhood condemnation of the Boston Marathon bombings, is indeed a sincere condemnation, then i will look forward to seeing many more condemnations of moslem violence, coming from Pres. Morsi's office.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Adamant Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1892 Brisbane	Re: Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan Reply #25 - Jun 25^th, 2013 at 9:47pm Must admit that I, in ages past, thought nothing of trying to impose my manly-hood on females at the Northampton Polytechnic in the UK. Never Dreamt of killing them however. Is it a Muslim thing?
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