Australian Politics Forum - Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49241 At my desk.	Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ? Reply #60 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:30pm They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for, but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49241 At my desk.	Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ? Reply #61 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:38pm bump
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Mnemonic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1530 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ? Reply #62 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 10:39pm freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:38pm: bump Is the forum software still buggy?
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Bobby.

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #63 - Jun 24^th, 2013 at 11:57pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for,
but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA.

But FD,
you are using a strawman fallacy - the ideas from ACA &
Today Tonight are also repeated in many other stories on TV -
you've obviously never watched landline &
the internet is full of stories about poor farmers:

e.g.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/vic-fruit-i...

Quote:

Federal Independent MP Bob Katter announced he would support the immediate introduction of clear labeling to identify produce place of origin, as a step to protect Australian producers from cheap imports. Click this image to see more photos in our online gallery.

More than 100 growers had their contracts reduced or cut completely, which second-generation orchardist Mario Mete said was devastating for Goulburn Valley growers. "It is heartbreaking – some people have been taken out completely and left with no source of income," he said.

Final SPC Ardmona figures are expected to be released next week. Mr Mete anticipated his orchard tonnage would be reduced by up to 40 per cent, leaving him to "ride it out" and hope for government intervention to improve Australian agriculture.

ACA & Today Tonight are not wrong because you say so.
You act as though what has happened in Goulburn Valley is a lie.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #64 - Jun 25^th, 2013 at 12:01am

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

bump

Did you watch 4 corners tonight ?

Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ?

Don't think so. The rich get richer and the poor get the picture Sad

Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world Sad

Got to look after the shareholders greed at any expense even if others have to die for it Sad

Greed is good !!

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/06/25/3785918.htm

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Datalife

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #65 - Jun 25^th, 2013 at 12:11am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 25^th, 2013 at 12:01am:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

bump

Did you watch 4 corners tonight ?

Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ?

Don't think so. The rich get richer and the poor get the picture Sad

Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world Sad

Got to look after the shareholders greed at any expense even if others have to die for it Sad

Greed is good !!

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/06/25/3785918.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201306/r1132467_13967588.jpg

Nice little rant. What do you propose as solutions other than rioting and throwing rocks through the window of a McDonalds?

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Bobby.

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #66 - Jun 25^th, 2013 at 12:14am

Good post Nail,
another example of what free trade is doing -
putting our famers & manufacturers out of business &
exploiting poor people in Bangladesh.

They get $16 per week or was it per month? -
and a single clothes item was sold for $60 in our shops.
They work in fire traps behind metal bars so they can't escape during a fire.
Many have died & their families received nothing.

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freediver

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #67 - Jun 25^th, 2013 at 7:45pm

Quote:

Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ?

Sure, but not by us getting all jingoistic and refusing to buy whatever they make.

Quote:

Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world

You sure about that? There is no dole in Bangladesh.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 11:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for,
but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA.

But FD,
you are using a strawman fallacy - the ideas from ACA &
Today Tonight are also repeated in many other stories on TV -
you've obviously never watched landline &
the internet is full of stories about poor farmers:

e.g.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/vic-fruit-i...

Quote:

Federal Independent MP Bob Katter announced he would support the immediate introduction of clear labeling to identify produce place of origin, as a step to protect Australian producers from cheap imports. Click this image to see more photos in our online gallery.

More than 100 growers had their contracts reduced or cut completely, which second-generation orchardist Mario Mete said was devastating for Goulburn Valley growers. "It is heartbreaking – some people have been taken out completely and left with no source of income," he said.

Final SPC Ardmona figures are expected to be released next week. Mr Mete anticipated his orchard tonnage would be reduced by up to 40 per cent, leaving him to "ride it out" and hope for government intervention to improve Australian agriculture.

ACA & Today Tonight are not wrong because you say so.
You act as though what has happened in Goulburn Valley is a lie.

Would you mind pointing out the bit where they say farmers are bulldozing perfectly good trees, which for some reason burn really well, just because of cheap imports?

Bob Katter is not much better than ACA.

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GA

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #68 - Jun 26^th, 2013 at 11:47am

Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:53pm:

GA wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 7:27pm:

The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition.

It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. Cheesy

Aussie businesses are doomed. They are uncompetitive, inefficient & overpricing of their products and services. (Aussie's solution to all financial problems is to raise prices, raise wages, raise rents or raise taxes).

As long as we have a small population we are going to be suffering the perils of poor efficiency of scale. And we will have a small population as long as Aussie is in Government. It's Aussie's xenophobia and racism that has kept the population small. The problem isn't the farmers, workers or businesses, it's Aussie himself. Everything will become cheaper if we had a bigger market. And reductions in prices will flow-back to reductions in production costs. It's one of the reasons 'big' countries like the USA have low prices. And why the US citrus industry has managed to keep afloat despite the competition from 'less developed countries'.

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Aussie Realist

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #69 - Jun 26^th, 2013 at 12:30pm

Damn right!

Free Trade, along with John Howard's Baby Bonus, are the two biggest disasters brought about in this country. What it's all about is maximising the profits of the mining and resource sector, while everyone else ends up either dead or homeless. If you think it's just about the automotive and manufacturing industries, you're dreaming. Look at a lot of our farmers now; we're buying cheap subsidised products from overseas (although I bet these farmers didn't expect that when many of them initially supported globalisation). Now because of I.T. and high speed global communication, most of our I.T. and Call Centre workers are now based in Asia or India. It's all about big corporations being allowed to exploit slave wages wherever they can. And of the jobs remaining here in Australia, we're bringing in tens of thousands of economic migrants to fill these jobs for lower pay (look at most of the cleaners and aged care workers now). I'm more than happy to take a pay cut....if the utility companies (gas, electricity, etc.) cut their rates by an equal measure. Not happening.

Eventually it will reach a crisis point where it costs the wealthy tax payers so much in Centrelink benefits and imprisonment fees that they'll realise we have to restructure our economy. The problem is, this will take decades, but it's already starting now. Just look at our prison populations.

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Socrates

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #70 - Jun 26^th, 2013 at 12:59pm

DAMN WRONG!

Australia cannot expect to do business with other countries if its not prepared to return the favour. Price is this country's problem, everything is overpriced and that is because the unions and the government have extorted money from the manufacturers and the producers. They have allowed a duopoly to exist for years were producers are made to accept whatever Coles and Woolworth's decide they'll pay. The unions just ask for more and more, the taxpayer has to subsidise industries which are unviable because of this. Then when they don't get the sales because it's still cheaper to import, they shut shop and put workers on the dole. They just manufacture elsewhere and we import for better quality and better prices. Free trade isn't this country's problem, poor quality and high prices are.

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Bobby.

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #71 - Jun 26^th, 2013 at 1:19pm

freediver wrote on Jun 25^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

Quote:

Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ?

Sure, but not by us getting all jingoistic and refusing to buy whatever they make.

Quote:

Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world

You sure about that? There is no dole in Bangladesh.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 11:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for,
but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA.

But FD,
you are using a strawman fallacy - the ideas from ACA &
Today Tonight are also repeated in many other stories on TV -
you've obviously never watched landline &
the internet is full of stories about poor farmers:

e.g.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/vic-fruit-i...

Quote:

Federal Independent MP Bob Katter announced he would support the immediate introduction of clear labeling to identify produce place of origin, as a step to protect Australian producers from cheap imports. Click this image to see more photos in our online gallery.

More than 100 growers had their contracts reduced or cut completely, which second-generation orchardist Mario Mete said was devastating for Goulburn Valley growers. "It is heartbreaking – some people have been taken out completely and left with no source of income," he said.

Final SPC Ardmona figures are expected to be released next week. Mr Mete anticipated his orchard tonnage would be reduced by up to 40 per cent, leaving him to "ride it out" and hope for government intervention to improve Australian agriculture.

ACA & Today Tonight are not wrong because you say so.
You act as though what has happened in Goulburn Valley is a lie.

Would you mind pointing out the bit where they say farmers are bulldozing perfectly good trees, which for some reason burn really well, just because of cheap imports?

Bob Katter is not much better than ACA.

Always my sources are attacked.
Just happened on this thread too:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1361578582/345

Quote:

Standard straw man fallacy argument:

Every youtube video is false therefore your youtube reference video is also false.

BigOl - you are a simpleton incapable of rebutting any point in the video.
You are however an expert troll.

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Aussie Realist

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #72 - Jul 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm

GA wrote on Jun 26^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:53pm:

GA wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 7:27pm:

The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition.

It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. Cheesy

Aussie businesses are doomed. They are uncompetitive, inefficient & overpricing of their products and services. (Aussie's solution to all financial problems is to raise prices, raise wages, raise rents or raise taxes).

As long as we have a small population we are going to be suffering the perils of poor efficiency of scale. And we will have a small population as long as Aussie is in Government. It's Aussie's xenophobia and racism that has kept the population small. The problem isn't the farmers, workers or businesses, it's Aussie himself. Everything will become cheaper if we had a bigger market. And reductions in prices will flow-back to reductions in production costs. It's one of the reasons 'big' countries like the USA have low prices. And why the US citrus industry has managed to keep afloat despite the competition from 'less developed countries'.

The US only represents about 5% of the world's population, yet the number of people imprisoned in the US makes up about 25% of the world's total prison population....which US tax payers have to pay for.
This is NOT an economic model I wish to follow.

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Aussie Realist

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #73 - Jul 4^th, 2013 at 4:54pm

Socrates wrote on Jun 26^th, 2013 at 12:59pm:

DAMN WRONG!

Australia cannot expect to do business with other countries if its not prepared to return the favour. Price is this country's problem, everything is overpriced and that is because the unions and the government have extorted money from the manufacturers and the producers. They have allowed a duopoly to exist for years were producers are made to accept whatever Coles and Woolworth's decide they'll pay. The unions just ask for more and more, the taxpayer has to subsidise industries which are unviable because of this. Then when they don't get the sales because it's still cheaper to import, they shut shop and put workers on the dole. They just manufacture elsewhere and we import for better quality and better prices. Free trade isn't this country's problem, poor quality and high prices are.

If Australia simply cannot produce something that we require, then I'm all for importing those things we cannot produce ourselves. Bring it in...in droves.

But that's not what's happening with this madness of "Free Trade". What the wealthy exporters in Australia are saying is very simple:

"We know full well that people in Australia can produce "Product X" and "Service Y", but since people overseas are desperate, starving, and willing to produce the same (or similar) products and services for a much cheaper cost, I'll import those goods/services. I don't care if the rest of Australia starves and dies."

People in Australia expect a more equitable distribution of wealth that is NOT affected by the madness overseas. "Free Trade" is simply an means of enforcing a type of economic Darwinism/Survival of the fittest by exploiting large, 3rd world populations that are starving & desperate - if you cannot compete at lower costs, you will starve and die. If you want to support this type of lunacy, no problem, you can do so by voting for the Liberals. I'm more than happy to disappoint you that I won't be joining your decision at the ballot box.

Coporations in Australia need to accept they cannot keep increasing their profits at a massive rate, percentage-wise, in comparison to their own workforce and the rest of the population. Simple.

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GA

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Re: Is free trade killing off aussie businesses ?
Reply #74 - Jul 4^th, 2013 at 6:32pm

Aussie Realist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

GA wrote on Jun 26^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:53pm:

GA wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 7:27pm:

The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition.

It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. Cheesy

Aussie businesses are doomed. They are uncompetitive, inefficient & overpricing of their products and services. (Aussie's solution to all financial problems is to raise prices, raise wages, raise rents or raise taxes).

As long as we have a small population we are going to be suffering the perils of poor efficiency of scale. And we will have a small population as long as Aussie is in Government. It's Aussie's xenophobia and racism that has kept the population small. The problem isn't the farmers, workers or businesses, it's Aussie himself. Everything will become cheaper if we had a bigger market. And reductions in prices will flow-back to reductions in production costs. It's one of the reasons 'big' countries like the USA have low prices. And why the US citrus industry has managed to keep afloat despite the competition from 'less developed countries'.

The US only represents about 5% of the world's population, yet the number of people imprisoned in the US makes up about 25% of the world's total prison population....which US tax payers have to pay for.
This is NOT an economic model I wish to follow.

You've applied your own (simple) interpretation to as why there is so much criminality in the US. And, being a charlatan, you avoid offering any economic, or for that matter, any argument at all as a 'model'.

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