Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Some common sense moving forward (Read 1882 times)
Aussie Realist
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16
Adelaide
Gender: male
Some common sense moving forward
Jun 25th, 2013 at 1:36pm
 
If there's an INTRODCUTION section....sorry, I haven't been able to find it.

First and foremost, if you're a shareholder in a public company - particularly in the Mining/Resources sector - I am not interested in the criticism and abuse I'll be receiving after you've read this post.

There's been all this endless talk in the media from all the various political parties....the debt Labor has created, the Boat People, the Greens, the Liberals, the Boat People....this, that, and the other.  The list of different issues is endless.  But above all else, there are three issues that concern me more than anything else:

  • Distribution of wealth.
  • Population growth and immigration.
  • Privatisation and state jurisdiction of basic utilities, particularly water.

Absolutely everything else takes a back seat to these issues.

When the Coalition (realistically, just the Liberal Party dictating terms to the Nationals) wins a landslide election in September, I have absolutely no doubt they will make huge inroads into reducing our national debt - no question about it.  But they are going to cut, slash, burn, privatise, and deregulate absolutely everything (with perhaps the exception of the Defence Force) to cut our debt.  And in the short term, it will work, although God help the poor and unemployed, because the Coalition won't.  But people who have skills and expertise that are in high demand (e.g. Engineers and Technicians in the mining industry) will be smiling all the way to the bank, but the vast majority of the population who do not have high-demand skills (e.g. the Retail sector, cleaners, hospitality workers, etc.) are going to be told to either work for slave wages comparable to the wages in Asia and India, or become homeless and starve to death.  But this is where I'd like to draw the attention of the Corporate community - when there's an enormous spike in poverty and homelessness, these people will soon turn to crime and our prison population will increase like never before....which we have to pay for.  Several years ago it cost just under $80,000 per year, on average, to imprison one adult inmate in Australia.  Our jails already are overflowing, yet the numbers are increasing.  Many people complain about the lenient sentences handed down to many offenders; this is mainly occurring not because our Judges and Magistrates don't want to lock these people up.  It's because our judiciary is only too well aware our prisons are already bursting at the seams and crippling our economy.  In South Australia (which is already broke), this has reached crisis level, and it's simply getting worse.  Because of the disease of Globalisation, we're currently using imprisonment as an alternative to provding employment.  Unless you're prepared to replace Centrelink benefits with Capital Punishment (which I'm sure Gina Rinehart would adore), we need to drastically rethink how our economy is being run.  We can do one of three things for each person in Australia:

The only realistic solution is providing MUCH greater financial incentive for the unemployed to take on education and training for skills that are in demand (the big problem is that Austudy does not include Rent Assistance), while bringing in some sort of scheme to encourage free birth control for the unemployed.  And forget about the Boat People for a few minutes....let's stop bringing in countless thousands of economic migrants; our greedy businesses are only bringing them in because they have been lucky enough to get training overseas (i.e. we don't have to pay for the training) and they will work for lower wages.  This is what has me seething with rage.  At ground-level, the best changes we could make would be the introduction of Rent Assistance for Austudy recipients, and have two entirely different sets of tax scales - one for normal wage earners and private business owners....and other tax scale for publicly owned, shareholder-based companies.  This would go a long way to helping Australia.  I'd also scrap payroll tax; this is a ridiculous disincentive for Aussie businesses to employ extra people.

The bottom line is, the people who profit from the very basic minerals, resources, and raw materials in Australia cannot expect their profits to keep increasing while our population keeps increasing.  If you want to boost your profits, start looking for initiatives to reduce population growth in this country.  The biggest socio-economic crime ever committed in this country was the introduction of the Baby Bonus by John Howard.  Thank the Lord that both Julia and Tony both agreed to scrap this madness.

It's time for the Mining and Resources sector to wake up and realise they live in a society....not in their own individual bubbles (i.e. their multi-million dollar mansions).  If not, Australia will turn into a country run by billionaire mining corporations paying for the elderly and those in prison.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
brumbie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 994
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #1 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:32pm
 
Did you get a "Flyer" through your letterbox?...not a Clive Palmer one I suspect.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
brumbie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 994
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #2 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:45pm
 
Seriously though AR I get it.The way you are thinking is quite rational.But,and it is a big but,we live in a 2 party system and the middle of the road people like you and realistically me,although I am more to the right,will never really count because politics is not about the peoples wishes but the parties.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #3 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:47pm
 
In 2000, online, I came across a document which is now virtually impossible to find

The document tabled legislation making it illegal in Australia to take water from any stream, well, river, dam, spring, even if any or all the above were located on one's own property.  Illegal also was the 'gathering' 'collecting' of rain water in any receptacle, tank or other

The legislation was passed in 1995

It's still there, sitting silent, able to enacted at any time


In the years since, I've encountered only a few people who were aware of that legislation.  Clearly, the vast majority of Aussies are unaware it exists and usually refuse to accept that it exists because it sounds counter-intuitive. After all, aren't government currently providing incentives and encouragement re: the installation of water tanks for home use?  Doesn't Birkenhead development have massive water-collection tanks underground and isn't this a great idea?

Nevertheless, the legislation was drafted, put before parliament and passed.  The whore media said nary a word, nor has any politician since

Coincidentally, the US appears to have created similar to identical legislation at around the same time as Oz.  Ditto the UK

Incredibly, right now, farmers and individuals are locked in battle with the US govt. re: use of water on their land and use of water collected

And in the UK, which has approx. as many rainy days as Oz has sunny ones, thousands of people have their water disconnected on regular basis because of inability to pay water bills to foreign owned companies

I can tell you now, I will not be voting for either the two big, fake parties.  They are all one gang. Criminals

I will however, vote for Palmer and hope millions do likewise, for a raft of reasons, one of which being that he does not intend to give preferences to the crooks

Water will become a major issue.  People have no idea what lies ahead.  They'll look back to today and remember it as paradise, hard though it may seem to us right now

They have big plans for us and none of them good.  So enjoy your baths and showers now, enjoy being able to toss sports clothes in the washing machine and filling up your spa and swimming pools.  The day will come, and it's not that far off, when water will cost more than petrol

So don't bother trying to discredit Palmer

All you Paid to Post vermin will not be getting special consideration from your scum employers.  You'll suffer too.  And you won't be picking up loose change for posting for pay online, either.  You'll be redundant.  And God help you if anyone then learns you betrayed your own by posting for pay online
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 139030
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #4 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:58pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:47pm:
In 2000, online, I came across a document which is now virtually impossible to find

The document tabled legislation making it illegal in Australia to take water from any stream, well, river, dam, spring, even if any or all the above were located on one's own property.  Illegal also was the 'gathering' 'collecting' of rain water in any receptacle, tank or other



"Taking surface water, from a river, lake, aquifer, spring or soak, requires a licence, unless otherwise stated. Unlicensed water extraction is allowable in all jurisdictions if used for domestic or stock purposes, where landowners hold rights to water under the Commonwealth Native Title Act 1993, or for miscellaneous purposes such as camping or watering travelling stock. New South Wales additionally recognises 'harvestable rights', where landowners can collect up to 10 percent of average regional rainfall runoff if stored in a 'small' dam (NSW DWE 2009b). Water use licences are required in South Australia and Western Australia if surface water is extracted from 'prescribed' or 'proclaimed' areas respectively but not from other water sources if the taking of water does not affect the water rights of persons downstream (SA DWLBC 2008b; WA Department of Water 2009a)."

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/rpp/100-120/rpp109/11.html
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bogarde73
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Anti-Global & Contra Mundum

Posts: 18443
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 3:02pm
 
and have two entirely different sets of tax scales - one for normal wage earners and private business owners....and other tax scale for publicly owned, shareholder-based companies. 

We have that already. One we commonly call income tax, now with a tax-free theshhold of $18000 or thereabouts, which applies to individuals whether employed, self-employed or partners in a partnership.
The other we commonly call company tax, which applies to all incorporated businesses whether listed public companies or small one-person companies.

Our jails already are overflowing, yet the numbers are increasing.  Many people complain about the lenient sentences handed down to many offenders; this is mainly occurring not because our Judges and Magistrates don't want to lock these people up.  It's because our judiciary is only too well aware our prisons are already bursting at the seams and crippling our economy.

The cost of prisons, a state govt function, is not crippling our economy. It is a drop in the bucket compared to health and education.
The judiciary are not guided by any fear of the economy being crippled, although the prison over-crowding may influence them. They are imo more influenced by the modern bleeding heart philosophy as well as not wanting to expose first offenders to a "jail education".

The only realistic solution is providing MUCH greater financial incentive for the unemployed to take on education and training for skills that are in demand (the big problem is that Austudy does not include Rent Assistance), while bringing in some sort of scheme to encourage free birth control for the unemployed.

Billions have been spent for many years on skills training. In many cases the money has gone on providing mickey mouse courses. In others there have just not been the jobs for the people who completed the courses.
Free birth control for the unemployed? If the females are receiving benefits I assume they would have a health care card and could get the pill fairly cheaply. The blokes could give up a packet of smokes and by a packet of condoms couldn't they?
Back to top
 

Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #6 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 3:06pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jun 25th, 2013 at 3:02pm:
and have two entirely different sets of tax scales - one for normal wage earners and private business owners....and other tax scale for publicly owned, shareholder-based companies. 

We have that already. One we commonly call income tax, now with a tax-free theshhold of $18000 or thereabouts, which applies to individuals whether employed, self-employed or partners in a partnership.
The other we commonly call company tax, which applies to all incorporated businesses whether listed public companies or small one-person companies.

Our jails already are overflowing, yet the numbers are increasing.  Many people complain about the lenient sentences handed down to many offenders; this is mainly occurring not because our Judges and Magistrates don't want to lock these people up.  It's because our judiciary is only too well aware our prisons are already bursting at the seams and crippling our economy.

The cost of prisons, a state govt function, is not crippling our economy. It is a drop in the bucket compared to health and education.
The judiciary are not guided by any fear of the economy being crippled, although the prison over-crowding may influence them. They are imo more influenced by the modern bleeding heart philosophy as well as not wanting to expose first offenders to a "jail education".

The only realistic solution is providing MUCH greater financial incentive for the unemployed to take on education and training for skills that are in demand (the big problem is that Austudy does not include Rent Assistance), while bringing in some sort of scheme to encourage free birth control for the unemployed.[/


Billions have been spent for many years on skills training. In many cases the money has gone on providing mickey mouse courses. In others there have just not been the jobs for the people who completed the courses.
Free birth control for the unemployed? If the females are receiving benefits I assume they would have a health care card and could get the pill fairly cheaply. The blokes could give up a packet of smokes and by a packet of condoms couldn't they?



http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/austudy

If you qualify for Austudy, you may be entitled to other payments and services such as:

Payments & services
•Centrelink Online Services[10]
•Centrepay[11]
•Clean Energy Advance[12]
•Ex-Carer Allowance (Child) Health Care Card[13]
•Fares Allowance[14]
•Income Bank[7]
•Income Support Bonus[15]
•Pension Supplement[16]
•Pharmaceutical Allowance[17]
•Rent Assistance[18]
•Sickness Allowance[19]
•Student Start-up Scholarship

Did someone state that Austudy recipients don't get rent assistance?
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #7 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 3:08pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:58pm:
PZ547 wrote on Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:47pm:
In 2000, online, I came across a document which is now virtually impossible to find

The document tabled legislation making it illegal in Australia to take water from any stream, well, river, dam, spring, even if any or all the above were located on one's own property.  Illegal also was the 'gathering' 'collecting' of rain water in any receptacle, tank or other



"Taking surface water, from a river, lake, aquifer, spring or soak, requires a licence, unless otherwise stated. Unlicensed water extraction is allowable in all jurisdictions if used for domestic or stock purposes, where landowners hold rights to water under the Commonwealth Native Title Act 1993, or for miscellaneous purposes such as camping or watering travelling stock. New South Wales additionally recognises 'harvestable rights', where landowners can collect up to 10 percent of average regional rainfall runoff if stored in a 'small' dam (NSW DWE 2009b). Water use licences are required in South Australia and Western Australia if surface water is extracted from 'prescribed' or 'proclaimed' areas respectively but not from other water sources if the taking of water does not affect the water rights of persons downstream (SA DWLBC 2008b; WA Department of Water 2009a)."

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/rpp/100-120/rpp109/11.html



Thanks for that

The legislation to which I've referred was passed in 1995, forbidding domestic rain collection amongst other things.  If you have a link to that, would you mind posting it when convenient thanks
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 139030
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #8 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 3:17pm
 

                                    Undecided

http://www.awa.asn.au/WMLP_background_information.aspx?LangType=3081
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie Realist
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16
Adelaide
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #9 - Jun 26th, 2013 at 12:47pm
 
brumbie wrote on Jun 25th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
Seriously though AR I get it.The way you are thinking is quite rational.But,and it is a big but,we live in a 2 party system and the middle of the road people like you and realistically me,although I am more to the right,will never really count because politics is not about the peoples wishes but the parties.


I appreciate your reply - well put.  Quite strange that a right-wing leaning voter actually acknowledges anyone's opinion othern than their own (however when things turn bad for them, they're the first to SCREAM and demand help).  But what is going to happen in September is the following:

  • Abbott will win in a Landslide.
  • Over the next few years the Liberals will reduce our debt; I do agree on that.
  • Their will be massive social unrest due to all the cutbacks, and our prison populations will skyrocket.
  • But....The Greens vote will increase enormously, due to disatisfied Labor voters.  And this is something that will sting Labor.

Basically, what we need to realise in Australia is that for the vast majority of people, Globalisation has been an abject failure, and we need to bin it and bring back well strutured, well planned Tarriffs (not a blind, shotgun approach).  If you're thinking that many Automotive Workers may be overpaid, you might (or might not) be right to some extent, but take a long, hard look at our local expenses (i.e. gas, electricity, etc.) compared to India and most Asian countries.  How about these utility companies in Australia (which should be Government owned) taking a cut in profits?  Not happening.  Our manufacturing sector could cut their pay by 70%, and we'd STILL not be able to compete in a pure Free Trade market.
Eventually Labor will realise we need to restruture our Free Trade economy, or we'll go broke paying Centrelink benefits and imprisonment costs.  This is one of the reasons I'm a huge advocate of reducing population size in Australia; if all we do is export raw materials, we need to reduce our population, not bring in more migrants.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie Realist
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16
Adelaide
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #10 - Jun 26th, 2013 at 1:19pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jun 25th, 2013 at 3:02pm:
We have that already. One we commonly call income tax, now with a tax-free theshhold of $18000 or thereabouts, which applies to individuals whether employed, self-employed or partners in a partnership.
The other we commonly call company tax, which applies to all incorporated businesses whether listed public companies or small one-person companies.


No, what I'm talking about is having two ENTIRELY SEPARATE tax scales, not a few additional taxes for companies.  This is not what we have at the moment.
Also, a separate "comapny tax" should be scrapped.

Quote:
The cost of prisons, a state govt function, is not crippling our economy. It is a drop in the bucket compared to health and education.


Education and Healthcare will always be there, and is typically budgeted for, but an ever-rising prison population is a controllable variable, and it is one that is hurting our economy.  There was an article online a few months ago that talked about South Australia's MASSIVELY overburdened prison system - I'll see if I can find it soon.

Quote:
Billions have been spent for many years on skills training. In many cases the money has gone on providing mickey mouse courses.


Ah yes, then that would explain why most of our Trade/Technical Colleges have been shut down decades ago, where now we have an alleged skills shortage.  Corporations and wealthy tax payers simply do not want to pay for the cost of educating and training our workforce, once they leave school.

Quote:
In others there have just not been the jobs for the people who completed the courses.


This is the #1 problem, above all else.



Quote:
Free birth control for the unemployed? If the females are receiving benefits I assume they would have a health care card and could get the pill fairly cheaply.

Currently there is NO Government PBS Subsidy for the Birth Control Pill.  I know this because I have spoken to many women who have tried to get it - doesn't happen.  The issue of the unemployed having lots of children is the biggest problem we face, but people don't appreciate this issue.  At last the Government is subsidising the Morning After Pill for women with Health Care Cards....thank Christ.

Quote:
If you qualify for Austudy, you may be entitled to other payments and services such as:

Payments & services
•Centrelink Online Services[10]
•Centrepay[11]
•Clean Energy Advance[12]
•Ex-Carer Allowance (Child) Health Care Card[13]
•Fares Allowance[14]
•Income Bank[7]
•Income Support Bonus[15]
•Pension Supplement[16]
•Pharmaceutical Allowance[17]
•Rent Assistance[18]
•Sickness Allowance[19]
•Student Start-up Scholarship

Did someone state that Austudy recipients don't get rent assistance?


The last time I heard, Austudy Recipients do NOT get Rent Assistance.  If this has changed, please do tell....I'd love to stand corrected.
I truly appreciate your reply; you raised some very valid points - not all entirely correct - but valid, nonetheless.  Thanks.  On a side note, I have often been labelled a "soft do-gooder".  Not at all.  I think many, many Aussies need an almighty boot up the a**e, however I want people to realise two things:
  • Australians always have, and always will, refuse to work for the types of wages earned in Asia and India.
  • It's a HECK of a lot cheaper to provide realistic, stable employment (e.g. approx $45k per year) than what it costs to lock people up.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Kat
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #11 - Jun 26th, 2013 at 1:29pm
 

You were going well there, Aussie Realist.

Until I saw this: " bringing in some sort of scheme to encourage free birth control for the unemployed".

So, why single them out, as if they were some disease or species of bug that you wish to eradicate? I
seem to recall a certain European leader made himself very unpopular due to his belief that this was a
correct and acceptable (final?) solution to the issue. I daresay he felt the same about refugees, too.

I'm getting very tired of the way some regard the unemployed as being a genetically different, inferior
sub-species of the genus Homo Sapiens. To hear the way some on here carry on, you'd think they were
born, and will die, unemployed &/or unemployable.

There's nothing wrong with criticising individual cases of unemployment and the reasons and causes of it
but to bundle them all together and treat them the way we do, is truly repugnant.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PZ574, you appear to be correct with your comment, "In the years since, I've encountered only a few people
who were aware of that legislation.  Clearly, the vast majority of Aussies are unaware it exists and usually
refuse to accept that it exists because it sounds counter-intuitive. After all, aren't government currently providing
incentives and encouragement re: the installation of water tanks for home use?"

I, too, have been met with laughter, ridicule, and questions regarding my sanity on many occasions where I've
mentioned this. Most do not, it seems, know about this putrid little erosion of rights and freedoms. And it has
nothing to do with water-conservation either, but everything to do with our money going into the pockets of
others. In other words, greed.


I also agree with your statement: "I can tell you now, I will not be voting for either the two big, fake parties. 
They are all one gang. Criminals. I will however, vote for Palmer" insofar as I also will not be voting for either
of the 'Majors'.

I don't know about Palmer, though. He's a bit of a 'dark horse' and I'd want to know a hell of a lot more about
both him, and his motives and plans/policies.
Back to top
 

...
 
IP Logged
 
Kat
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #12 - Jun 26th, 2013 at 1:50pm
 
And you do it yet again: " The issue of the unemployed having lots of children is the biggest problem
we face, but people don't appreciate this issue."

Sorry, but singling the unemployed out as if the were a sub-human race that needs to be bred into
extinction is unacceptable and extremely offensive.

It's not the unemployed who are bleeding the welfare purse dry, it's the middle-class, who seem to
regard the ATO as their own exclusive bank, which simply holds 'their' money till they want it back.
And always far more than they've paid-in, and smack-all of it means-tested. Nothing gets admitted to
when it comes to Howard's vote-buying by showering the middle-class with bribes at the expense of
those that welfare was intended to support and protect.

It was one of Howard's biggest mistakes, and Labor has failed the country and the genuinely needy
big-time by not abolishing most of it. But they did means-test some of it, and that's a major reason
for the lemming-like rush to commit economic and social suicide by voting for an Abbott 'government'.


But hey, let's kick the unemployed in the face instead...... I've heard a lot of ideas, some good, some
bad, in relation to the unemployment issue, but to suggest that the should (or can) be bred into
extinction really takes the lollipop when it comes to seeing just how offensive and discriminatory we
can be towards the unemployed.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2013 at 2:02pm by Kat »  

...
 
IP Logged
 
Postmodern Trendoid III
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 10266
Gender: male
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #13 - Jun 26th, 2013 at 2:01pm
 
Why would you have children if you're unemployed? Sounds a tad irresponsible.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Kat
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female
Re: Some common sense moving forward
Reply #14 - Jun 26th, 2013 at 2:13pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 26th, 2013 at 2:01pm:
Why would you have children if you're unemployed? Sounds a tad irresponsible.


So, you can predict at the age of 25 that you'll be unemployed at 30? Don't be naïve.

And if they do happen to be unemployed at 30, why do you persist in believing they got
there by choice, or that they'll remain there from then on till they die/get pension?

Seriously, I can't work out how some of you can believe the bullshyt that gets posted re
the unemployed. All it really shows is that many of you people are either extremely greedy
or monumentally stupid, or have a genuine (and dangerous) vicious/vindictive streak that
bears careful monitoring.

Or possibly even all three.
Back to top
 

...
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print