Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #165 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:02pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:58pm:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:53pm:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

cv
Now you are becoming seriously silly, ian. No doubt many innocent people have been executed. We will never know.

The point is that the death penalty was dropped in Australia before the advent of modern forensic science and DNA testing And the doubts which have been laid at these decades old executions are being voiced becuse modern DNA testing is casting the doubt. These people would never be convicted and executed under our current system.

you have to be a teenager. no one else could be so naively confident that the modern forensic science can deliver error-free judgements.

I never claimed it did. Do you have some sort of comprehension problem?

it is derived using a process I call logic - you should try it. Let me sum it up for you:
You declare that there must be zero tolerance for error in executions.
You are in favour of the DP
ergo you must believe in a error-free judicial system

care to find the flaw in the above logical progression?

Longy,
Are you saying that Julian Knight, Martin Bryant & Adrian Bayley shouldn't have got the noose?

yes. its called MORALITY. You should investigate it.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #166 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:04pm Bobby has the same view with me on death penalty We have spoke before of it. Correct bobby?
Back to top	IP Logged

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #167 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:05pm You don't have time for morality when you pick up your dead women and children.
Back to top	IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #168 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:11pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:58pm:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:53pm:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

cv
Now you are becoming seriously silly, ian. No doubt many innocent people have been executed. We will never know.

The point is that the death penalty was dropped in Australia before the advent of modern forensic science and DNA testing And the doubts which have been laid at these decades old executions are being voiced becuse modern DNA testing is casting the doubt. These people would never be convicted and executed under our current system.

you have to be a teenager. no one else could be so naively confident that the modern forensic science can deliver error-free judgements.

I never claimed it did. Do you have some sort of comprehension problem?

it is derived using a process I call logic - you should try it. Let me sum it up for you:
You declare that there must be zero tolerance for error in executions.
You are in favour of the DP
ergo you must believe in a error-free judicial system

care to find the flaw in the above logical progression?

yes, your conclusion. I didnt state the judicial system could be error free. That would be impossible. However, as far as reinstating the death penalty we can put in place a system which would ensure no one is executed in error. See the difference? That doesnt mean the whole judicial system has to be error free.

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #169 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:16pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:05pm: You don't have time for morality when you pick up your dead women and children. which is why you will always be picking them up. Someone has to break the cycle of revenge or else... you get what you have now.
Back to top	AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..." IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #170 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:18pm

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:58pm:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:53pm:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

cv
Now you are becoming seriously silly, ian. No doubt many innocent people have been executed. We will never know.

The point is that the death penalty was dropped in Australia before the advent of modern forensic science and DNA testing And the doubts which have been laid at these decades old executions are being voiced becuse modern DNA testing is casting the doubt. These people would never be convicted and executed under our current system.

you have to be a teenager. no one else could be so naively confident that the modern forensic science can deliver error-free judgements.

I never claimed it did. Do you have some sort of comprehension problem?

it is derived using a process I call logic - you should try it. Let me sum it up for you:
You declare that there must be zero tolerance for error in executions.
You are in favour of the DP
ergo you must believe in a error-free judicial system

care to find the flaw in the above logical progression?

yes, your conclusion. I didnt state the judicial system could be error free. That would be impossible. However, as far as reinstating the death penalty we can put in place a system which would ensure no one is executed in error. See the difference? That doesnt mean the whole judicial system has to be error free.

a 4 yo could pick the logical fallacy in that. to have error-free executions you have to have error-free due process in DP cases. That is impossible and you in fact stated such.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104726 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #171 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:32pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:04pm: Bobby has the same view with me on death penalty We have spoke before of it. Correct bobby? Correct Avram, If you knew what: Julian Knight, Martin Bryant & Adrian Bayley did then you would agree with me too.
Back to top	IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #172 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:36pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:18pm:

a 4 yo could pick the logical fallacy in that. to have error-free executions you have to have error-free due process in DP cases. That is impossible and you in fact stated such.

Nice twist duck and dive but you stated error free judicial process and I stated no such thing. And that is also not "due process" which in itself is the ability of an accused person to access all thier legal rights available under prevailing law.

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #173 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:07am

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:18pm:

a 4 yo could pick the logical fallacy in that. to have error-free executions you have to have error-free due process in DP cases. That is impossible and you in fact stated such.

Nice twist duck and dive but you stated error free judicial process and I stated no such thing. And that is also not "due process" which in itself is the ability of an accused person to access all thier legal rights available under prevailing law.

you are a moron who cannot even formulate a logical and consistent argument. you should be executed for it.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 137516
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #174 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 10:03am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:07am:

you are a moron who cannot even formulate a logical and consistent argument. you should be executed for it.

Took you a while to get there.

He is totally irrational.

Can't form a logical and consistent argument.

Does not accept any form of evidence, from anywhere, unless it supports his opinion.

Doesn't know when he's been beaten.

After reading the last two pages of this thread, I won't be wasting my time replying directly to him anymore.

I've never seen anyone quite like him on this forum before.

Back to top

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #175 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:01am

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:07am:

ian wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:18pm:

a 4 yo could pick the logical fallacy in that. to have error-free executions you have to have error-free due process in DP cases. That is impossible and you in fact stated such.

Nice twist duck and dive but you stated error free judicial process and I stated no such thing. And that is also not "due process" which in itself is the ability of an accused person to access all thier legal rights available under prevailing law.

you are a moron who cannot even formulate a logical and consistent argument. you should be executed for it.

surrender acknowledged

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 137516
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #176 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:07am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

If you take the life of someone, then your life will be taken.

In less civilised societies, yes.

Australia, thankfully, is much more civilised than places like Texas.

We'll never see premeditated state-sanctioned killing used as punishment in this country again, under any government.

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #177 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:44am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 10:03am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 9:07am:

you are a moron who cannot even formulate a logical and consistent argument. you should be executed for it.

Took you a while to get there.

He is totally irrational.

Can't form a logical and consistent argument.

Does not accept any form of evidence, from anywhere, unless it supports his opinion.

Doesn't know when he's been beaten.

After reading the last two pages of this thread, I won't be wasting my time replying directly to him anymore.

I've never seen anyone quite like him on this forum before.

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/23531978.jpg

oh I think SOB could top him. lastnail is also one for whom there is no standard of evidence possible to dispute his own personal opinion. They are the real losers; the ones who have no logical centre.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #178 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:47am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:07am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

If you take the life of someone, then your life will be taken.

In less civilised societies, yes.

Australia, thankfully, is much more civilised than places like Texas.

We'll never see premeditated state-sanctioned killing used as punishment in this country again, under any government.

I think you are right. Every now and then there is a case - like Jill Meagher - which brings the sentiment to the fore but the Australian people do not have the stomach for killing people. We have seen too many miscarriages of justice to accept that the DP could be foolproof and too many other societies where the DP simply does not work beyond satisfying the bloodlust of the lower classes.

it is another reason why we live in one of the best and enlightened countries on the planet.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #179 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 11:48am

Despite having a much higher rate of deaths and injuuries form firearms, the US has a much lower rate of violent crime overall than Australia. wonder how that can be.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime
Crime stats: Australia vs United States
Australian Crime stats
American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.

Back to top

IP Logged

Poll
Question: Do you support the death penalty?
yes 7 (50.0%) no 6 (42.9%) not sure 1 (7.1%) Total votes: 14 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jul 1^st, 2013 at 7:19pm »