Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...

Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #285 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:45pm I claim it as deterrence too. How many acts of violence have you seen committed by a dead person re offending?
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #286 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:47pm I also claim as vengeance for justice too. I cannot pick Aussie history I apologise but for my country how about Operation Wrath of God? 11 murderers removed by the state for killing innocent people and those 11 people never murdered anyone again. Vengeance, deterrent and justice!
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Peter Freedman

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #287 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:48pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:55pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

Lets see someone defend this pedophiles right to live amongst humans.

It is a question of society's right to kill him. I believe we have no such right.

In the case referred to, a man aged 42 has been sentenced to 40 years. If he serves his full sentence he may never be released.

Every day of the rest of his life, he can think about what he did and why he is behind bars.

Isn't that a better punishment than putting him to death?

meanwhile every day for the next 80 yrs, this kid gets to re-live everything they did to him. Nope, I still think it would be better for all concerned if they killed the bloke ... at least then the kid would know there is one monster under his bed who is never coming back.

thats already true. again., all you want - all you DP-supporters ever want - is DEATH and BLOOD.

you cant even make a conherent cogent argument for the DP beyond bloodlust

that's exactly right, in these cases, I want blood .... I'll leave the arguments for you. By the way, I notice you avoided answering my question . If after he, or any other pedo, has served his sentence & moves in next door to your grandkids would you object?

its moot because he isnt getting out. And I dont have the problem of a guilty conscience of executing criminals who may not all be actually guilty. Thats a problem you refuse to address.

ahh, I notice now you keep your answer limited to him, whereas before you were worried about the innocent ... Ok, would you have been happy if Dennis Ferguson or any other pedo , upon his release from prison (and before dying), moved in next door to your grandkids?

As for the guilty conscience bullsh1t, I doubt it would bother me too much. As long as my intentions are honest, I accept that I cannot control everything and understand that mistakes are made and I am prepared to live with that.

ah the irony! YOU are prepared to 'live with it'. Pity the poor innocent bugger executed. As predicted, this is all about YOU and your bloodlust and has zero to do with justice of any kind.

of course it's about justice .... but you asked me to address my supposed guilty conscience ... now you want me to tell you about the victims conscience?

wow... you really dont understand arguments very well do you?

or you don't maybe understand how to present a question properly? ... you asked about my conscience and then complain that it is about me and not the victim ... you're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you? Not to worry, despite that, you still are a tool

well let me clarify it with the simple question that I can almost guarantee you wont answer directly.

What rate of error in executing the guilty are you prepared to accept and still support the death penalty?

as many as it takes. you want me to present a number? that's not how it works dopey ....

as long as the system does everything it can to try and keep the number to a minimum, that is all anyone can ask

John, you seem very keen to personalise this debate.

So tell me this:

How would you feel if your son was executed for a crime you knew he didn't commit?

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #288 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:49pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:45pm: I claim it as deterrence too. How many acts of violence have you seen committed by a dead person re offending? No Avram. Deterrence means deterring other people.
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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #289 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:51pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

I claim it as deterrence too.

How many acts of violence have you seen committed by a dead person re offending?

stupid, stupid argument. Although I guess it does explain carpet bombing of civilians.

go away avram. you discredit your country, your religion and frankly, your species.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #290 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:52pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

[quote author=longweekend58
as long as the system does everything it can to try and keep the number to a minimum, that is all anyone can ask

John, you seem very keen to personalise this debate.

So tell me this:

How would you feel if your son was executed for a crime you knew he didn't commit?

pretty certain you wont get a reply to this. well not one on topic anyhow.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Peter Freedman

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #291 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:34pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:27pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:18pm:

Capital Punishment is a deterrent.

Stop the name calling and the obscenities and find me proof of that statement.

multiple researchers have concluded that the DP is at best no deterrent at all and in a disturbing number of states/countries has a correlation with a slight increase in violent crime.

care to prove that somehow?

would it change anything if I did show you the research? would you even accept it anyhow? Or would you - as most expect - just continue on as if it hasbt been presented?

You are not concerned with the effectiveness or deterrence of the DP. you just want some people to die. When you want to enter the debate as a serious debater on the opposite side with some actual thought-out opinions then I will respond with teh facts you claim to want to see.

how did I know you would try to avoid posting any evidence?

I've gotta go and put the kids to bed, I will look for your answer to my question upon my return ...

man up and answer the question you chicken sh1t

its easy to prove. THERE just isnt any point. You wouldnt believe it. If you were Ian you'd just say it was a blog or opinion etc. Id show peter or gregory because while I disagree with them most time, they do have the ability to think. You however dont.

Thank you, longy. Same back at ya. Wink

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #292 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:54pm So it prevents re offending 100% and it prevents others from doing the same when you know the result is death. You must respond fire with fire. If you don't. You lose and you do your people no justice. I am sorry this is how it must be.
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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #293 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:58pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:54pm:

So it prevents re offending 100% and it prevents others from doing the same when you know the result is death.

You must respond fire with fire.

If you don't. You lose and you do your people no justice.

I am sorry this is how it must be.

hows that deterrence thing working out for you in Israel? suicide bombers stopped have they?

you are an idiot.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #294 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:58pm How is targeted removals or death penalty in justice linked to carpet civilians bombing. I don't think anyone supports this.
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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #295 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:01pm

I think its quite telling in this debate that the DP opponents are getting very emotional, emotional enough to sling insults at others and emotional enough to defend the right to live of the pedophile mentioned but not emotional enough to condemn the pedophile. Not 1 so far has condemned this subhuman peice of poo for his actions but they support his right to live, not only his right to live but his right to eventually get parole and committ his offences all over again.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #296 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:44pm:

if the DP worked i ending murder I still wouldnt support it, but at least there would be a valid argument. and that is in a nutshell the problem with the DP. It doesnt deter crime, it doesnt prevent crime and it doesnt resolve the fallout from crime. So what exactly are its merits again?

Lol, what a completely naive and ludicrous statement. Of course it prevents reoffending, how can a dead person reoffend? If Jill Meaghers killer was given the death penalty for the violent rapes he admitted to doing then she would be alive today, how can this be an argument.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #297 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:05pm As far as having a pedophile living next door, it is a sad reflection on society that a parent has to treat any stranger, and not necessarily only strangers, as potential pedophiles.
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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #298 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:05pm

ian wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:01pm:

I think its quite telling in this debate that the DP opponents are getting very emotional, emotional enough to sling insults at others and emotional enough to defend the right to live of the pedophile mentioned but not emotional enough to condemn the pedophile. Not 1 so far has condemned this subhuman peice of poo for his actions but they support his right to live, not only his right to live but his right to eventually get parole and committ his offences all over again.

I think you confuse 'staying on topic' with other things. The topic is the DP and desperate people like yourself always abandon the argument on principle for the argument of example. The debate is not about one pedo. it is about the DP. If you want to get responses to your posts then you might try debating the topic at hand.

Deflecting to side emotive issues might work with some people but you may have noticed (or not) that your opponents here are older, more experienced and clearly more educated and informed than most. We have our positions based on facts, experience and morality. We did not come to these positions lightly or on the basis of Ivan Milat or whoever. In short, WE THINK. You should try the same.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #299 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:07pm

ian wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:44pm:

if the DP worked i ending murder I still wouldnt support it, but at least there would be a valid argument. and that is in a nutshell the problem with the DP. It doesnt deter crime, it doesnt prevent crime and it doesnt resolve the fallout from crime. So what exactly are its merits again?

Lol, what a completely naive and ludicrous statement. Of course it prevents reoffending, how can a dead person reoffend? If Jill Meaghers killer was given the death penalty for the violent rapes he admitted to doing then she would be alive today, how can this be an argument.

well what about first offenders??? how does it work there?? Meagher was the result of judicial failure. But that failure is not resolved by executing all convicted rapists because the next such predator will be a first-timer. then what do you do?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Poll
Question: Do you support the death penalty?
yes 7 (50.0%) no 6 (42.9%) not sure 1 (7.1%) Total votes: 14 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jul 1^st, 2013 at 7:19pm »