Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...

ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #315 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:29pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

ian wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

Id like your rationale in stating pedophilia is part of normal human behaviour thanks.

which isnt what I said of course. But you arent that good with understanding the detail of opposing opinions.

Well you stated they werent predators or sociopaths, did you not? So what are they?

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #316 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:31pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

ian wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:09pm:

oddly enough the present obsesion with pedophiles has neither reduced nor increased the rate of sexual offending towards children. again, it is one of those offences which is part of human nature in general and not just part of the sociopath or predatory subgroups.

What are you babbling about now? You really have no idea at all what you are talking about, pedophilia can not be cured, there has never, ever been one rehabilitated. You appear to be attempting to noramilse this behaviour now. A normal human response is to have empathy for children, not cause them harm.

now you are treading into my are of expertise (Psychology). Firstly there is an enormous difference between pedophilia and sex offending. The former isnt even an offence. It is a mental illness. the vast majoritt of sexual abuse of children is not done by pedophiles but by Joe and Joan Average. it occures in every society, culture, religion, social and educational strata and is unfortunately a part of the human condition. I am not trying to normalise it. I however do have an actual understanding of areas of abnormal psychology having actually published a book on one area of it.

You might try and work on your comprehension. Just because someone doesnt wish to execute a particular criminal does not mean he is sympathising. That is the view you'd expect from a bogan with a grad 5 education and married to his cousin.

Nah mate, youre full of it. Even a complete beginner knows pedophiles are predators. You have no understanding. You are trying to normalise it.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #317 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:33pm ian, isn't calling someone a "subhuman piece of poo" a tad emotional?
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Big Dave

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #318 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:34pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:18pm:

Capital Punishment is a deterrent.

Incorrect.

"A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01...

"Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase."

thanks for that. I forget what the effect was called. When you devalue anyone's life, you devalue all life. When you start to kill it is hard to know when to stop and draw the line.

So when civilizations fail around the world are governments going to hand out flowers. The noose is a law that has been and will be used again. Capital punishment corresponds to the state of a civilisations decline. When the jails overflow and money starts running out the public sure won't want them on the street. Your attempts at some sort of judicial morality are just a fad.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #319 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:35pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:33pm: ian, isn't calling someone a "subhuman piece of poo" a tad emotional? Thats what they are, you think these people are human?
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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #320 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:36pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:54pm:

... it prevents others from doing the same when you know the result is death.

No, it doesn't.

Where are you getting your (mis)information from?

"A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime."

"The October 2004 report for the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, entitled The deterrent effect of capital punishment: A review of the research evidence, found no conclusive evidence that the death penalty had reduced crime."

"One clear message comes from reading the vast literature that exists on this topic, and that is, there is no consistent evidence that capital punishment deters crime ... "

"Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase."

"The majority of the studies the pair examined found capital punishment 'did not deter the commission of homicide.' "

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01...

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #321 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:39pm Death penalty provides vengeance and justice. If it prevents more deaths from deterrence this is a bonus. For me it is about the response. Never let a act go unavenged.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #322 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:42pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:39pm:

If it prevents more deaths from deterrence this is a bonus.

It doesn't.

You were wrong.

Your bloodlust fueled vengeance is not only completely disgusting, it is also preventing you from thinking clearly or presenting anything that resembles a rational argument.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #323 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:45pm

Longweekend states pedophilia is his area of expertise , then goes on to state that most child abusers are not pedophiles. Heres the truth of the matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
However, the Mayo Clinic reports perpetrators who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia offend more often than non-pedophile perpetrators, and with a greater number of victims. They state that approximately 95% of child sexual abuse incidents are committed by the 88% of child molestation offenders who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia.[13] A behavioral analysis report by the FBI states that a "high percentage of acquaintance child molesters are preferential sex offenders who have a true sexual preference for [prepubescent] children (i.e., true pedophiles)".[11]

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Socrates

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #324 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:46pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:18pm:

Capital Punishment is a deterrent.

Stop the name calling and the obscenities and find me proof of that statement.

You are a smug arsehole, and I don't have to find you bugger-all. Use that peanut you call a brain and do your own research.

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An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #325 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:48pm Vengeance is not disgusting but it is natural justice of correcting a wrong. If people murder then they no longer deserve to live. In my country we have for a long time adopted policy of every act of violence receives a response.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #326 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:49pm

Socrates wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:18pm:

Capital Punishment is a deterrent.

Stop the name calling and the obscenities and find me proof of that statement.

You are a smug arsehole, and I don't have to find you bugger-all. Use that peanut you call a brain and do your own research.

Here's some research for you:

"A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime."

"The October 2004 report for the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, entitled The deterrent effect of capital punishment: A review of the research evidence, found no conclusive evidence that the death penalty had reduced crime."

"One clear message comes from reading the vast literature that exists on this topic, and that is, there is no consistent evidence that capital punishment deters crime ... "

"Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase."

"The majority of the studies the pair examined found capital punishment 'did not deter the commission of homicide.' "

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01...

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137545 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #327 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:50pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:48pm: In my country we have for a long time adopted policy of every act of violence receives a response. And how's that working out for you sunshine? How is your shithole of a country doing these days? Hmmm?
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John Smith

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #328 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:50pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:55pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:45pm:

ian wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

Lets see someone defend this pedophiles right to live amongst humans.

It is a question of society's right to kill him. I believe we have no such right.

In the case referred to, a man aged 42 has been sentenced to 40 years. If he serves his full sentence he may never be released.

Every day of the rest of his life, he can think about what he did and why he is behind bars.

Isn't that a better punishment than putting him to death?

meanwhile every day for the next 80 yrs, this kid gets to re-live everything they did to him. Nope, I still think it would be better for all concerned if they killed the bloke ... at least then the kid would know there is one monster under his bed who is never coming back.

thats already true. again., all you want - all you DP-supporters ever want - is DEATH and BLOOD.

you cant even make a conherent cogent argument for the DP beyond bloodlust

that's exactly right, in these cases, I want blood .... I'll leave the arguments for you. By the way, I notice you avoided answering my question . If after he, or any other pedo, has served his sentence & moves in next door to your grandkids would you object?

its moot because he isnt getting out. And I dont have the problem of a guilty conscience of executing criminals who may not all be actually guilty. Thats a problem you refuse to address.

ahh, I notice now you keep your answer limited to him, whereas before you were worried about the innocent ... Ok, would you have been happy if Dennis Ferguson or any other pedo , upon his release from prison (and before dying), moved in next door to your grandkids?

As for the guilty conscience bullsh1t, I doubt it would bother me too much. As long as my intentions are honest, I accept that I cannot control everything and understand that mistakes are made and I am prepared to live with that.

ah the irony! YOU are prepared to 'live with it'. Pity the poor innocent bugger executed. As predicted, this is all about YOU and your bloodlust and has zero to do with justice of any kind.

of course it's about justice .... but you asked me to address my supposed guilty conscience ... now you want me to tell you about the victims conscience?

wow... you really dont understand arguments very well do you?

or you don't maybe understand how to present a question properly? ... you asked about my conscience and then complain that it is about me and not the victim ... you're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you? Not to worry, despite that, you still are a tool

well let me clarify it with the simple question that I can almost guarantee you wont answer directly.

What rate of error in executing the guilty are you prepared to accept and still support the death penalty?

as many as it takes. you want me to present a number? that's not how it works dopey ....

as long as the system does everything it can to try and keep the number to a minimum, that is all anyone can ask

John, you seem very keen to personalise this debate.

So tell me this:

How would you feel if your son was executed for a crime you knew he didn't commit?

terrible, but I'm not talking about executing the innocent, I'm talking about executing this piece of filth ... why do you struggle to stick to topic?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Big Dave

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #329 - Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:51pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:42pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29^th, 2013 at 8:39pm:

If it prevents more deaths from deterrence this is a bonus.

It doesn't.

You were wrong.

Your bloodlust fueled vengeance is not only completely disgusting, it is also preventing you from thinking clearly or presenting anything that resembles a rational argument.

I wonder how you'd feel if your daughter was raped and murdered. I bet you'd change your tune.

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Poll
Question: Do you support the death penalty?
yes 7 (50.0%) no 6 (42.9%) not sure 1 (7.1%) Total votes: 14 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jul 1^st, 2013 at 7:19pm »