Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...

Kat

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #60 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:25am

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 27^th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27^th, 2013 at 3:51pm:

My opinion has always been that premeditated state-sanctioned killing is not an acceptable form of punishment.

I accept your right to have this opinion. In the final washup it really doesn't matter what happens to these serial killers and serial rapists ~~ the damage has already been done.

But then again, I'm drawn to the fact that the surviving families of these murder and rape victims need to feel that society has a justice system that does not allow for leniency and compassion towards these perpetrators.

The only closure the immediate family of murder victims have is when the perpetrator dies. For as long as the serial killer and rapists are alive and enjoying the comforts and entertainments found in prisons, the family members of the deceased are in a limbo of unresolved grieving and bereavement.

What an extraordinary generalisation. How can you claim to know what is in the mind of every family member of every murder victim?

The justice system is not about vengeance or "closure" for the victim's family.

No nation that practises judicial murder is truly civilised.

Every time there is a particularly nasty killing, the "hang 'em high" mob crawl out of their holes to vent their blood lust.

Then they crawl back in till the next time.

This is curious.

Herb supports Peter's right to hold an opinion that opposes the DP.

But goes into attack-mode when I express the same view.

Something's wrong here.....

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Lord Herbert

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #61 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 8:11am

Kat wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 7:25am:

This is curious.

Herb supports Peter's right to hold an opinion that opposes the DP.

But goes into attack-mode when I express the same view.

Something's wrong here.....

"Let's move FORWARD shall we? We're going to move FORWARD" quote, Julia Gillard to media crush.

I apologise if I seemed a little harsh, but we're moving on ~ we're moving FORWARD now ...

So ...

1. As things stand, I wouldn't vote for the Death Penalty. My reason is that far too many provoked murderers are given the chop in the USA.

Example: A Black ghetto rat enters a liquor store with a .38 and demands of the Korean shop owner that he hand over the contents of the till ~ a paltry few dollars at best.

And then, with the jived-up black pointing the .38 at the Korean's head ~ incredibly, the Korean shop owner swings a rifle into view from under the counter.

Happens all the time with Asian shop keepers.

The black pulls the trigger and is soon sitting on death row.

Not in a fit would I give this black the death penalty for what he did.

2. Possibly 70 to 80% of murders in the US are related to 'turf wars' where gang members kill each other for a bigger share of the profits.

Criminals killing criminals would not attract the death penalty in my court.

But how many Hispanics and blacks are sitting on death row because they 'wasted' some street scum over crack cocaine distribution rights?

3. Wives/girlfriends who eventually kill long-time abusive husbands. No death penalty from me.

4. Paedophiles ... no death sentence, but life in prison, never to be released.

5. Traitors ~ death penalty.

6. Serial killers ~ death penalty.

7. Crimes again humanity ~ death penalty.

8. Premeditated murder of an innocent party ~ death penalty.

9. Murder by reason of insanity ~ life behind bars, never to be released.

10. Planning a terrorist act designed to take life ~ death penalty.

In all cases of the death penalty the prisoner must not be left waiting for more than 12 months. All appeals must be completed within this time.

11. No death sentence on circumstantial evidence.

12. Forensic Science has been thoroughly discredited in the past two years by independent researchers appointed by the US judiciary. This poses the problem of convicting upon the dubious 'evidence' of forensic investigations.

If you haven't seen this particular doco ~ then I recommended it to you.

It's a shocker. The abuses and the half-baked 'science' has been a disgrace.

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« Last Edit: Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:34am by Lord Herbert »

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Peter Freedman

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #62 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am

Herbert, yes, I am aware of VIS. They are as you describe, but are quite separate from the question of sentencing.

What is the death penalty if it is not premeditated killing? Isn't that the definition of murder?

I oppose the death penalty for various reasons.

Firstly there is no proof it is a deterrent. In fact quite the opposite. In US states where the government takes life, this encourages citizens to do so as well.

Secondly it makes the state no better than the criminals it executes.

Thirdly the very real possibility of error. You can take life, but not give it back.

The last man executed in NZ was later found to be innocent. There have been two major cases (Arthur Alan Thomas and David Bain) where juries were subsequently found to have been wrong.

In one case, Thomas, two juries convicted him. It was later found police had planted evidence.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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FriYAY

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #63 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:16am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 27^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27^th, 2013 at 4:44pm:

I remember late one night a man phoned up the Brian Wilshire talkback show on Radio 2GB.

They talked for a while, and then he was asked what his personal interest was in the subject.

He then admitted that many years ago he had killed a man who had molested his young daughter. He spoke very quietly, in a very relaxed way.

Brian asked if he had ever regretted doing what he'd done, and he said 'no'.

Did he catch the man in the act? If so, then I would assume most parents would do the same & good on them, I know I would.

Or did he just "THINK" it was him?

That is the core issue surrounding the death penalty.

There is no release with a "Sorry" at the end of it if new evidence comes to light.

Yes, but there are plenty when the guilt is obvious isn’t there?

Do you think Milat will be cleared at a later date?

Julian Knight?

Martin Bryant?

No, no ,no.

Bang Bang Bang

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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #64 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:17am

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

I oppose the death penalty for various reasons.

Firstly there is no proof it is a deterrent. In fact quite the opposite. In US states where the government takes life, this encourages citizens to do so as well.

Secondly it makes the state no better than the criminals it executes.

Thirdly the very real possibility of error. You can take life, but not give it back.

1. Funny how this doesn't occur in japan who also have the DP, but don't around killing people; I dare say it would be very similar in many other countries with the DP. The US is the US and a lot of what they do does NOT extrapolated to the rest of the world.

2. No it doesn't, a dead scumbag is nothing more than a dead scumbag; there is no moral issue here.

3. When handing out the DP, use it sparingly and dare I say it judiciously, like most non-nutbag countries outside of the US do, where they have the DP.

The US is not the yard stick for the proper application of the DP, but is is the ''go to country' for those with weak emotional arguments.

The DP is not about learning lessons, or rehabilitation or even crime prevention, it is about ensuring that one particular scumbag does not get released into the world, ever. We all know there is always a small group of socialist sh1theads working to ensure every scumbag gets to walk free.
We have them in Aus, they are usually judges and the parole board but they very much include defence barristers and other lowlifes.

Try not to get to emotional about the death of a piece of sh1t and since we in Australia love having our filth freed as soon as possible, walking the street no matter what, all is jum dandy.

Sh1t in this country, being sentenced "Never to be Released" does not mean you never walk the streets again, all you have to do is wait for the right judge to hear your case and out the door you go.

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FriYAY

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #65 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:23am

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

Firstly there is no proof it is a deterrent. In fact quite the opposite. In US states where the government takes life, this encourages citizens to do so as well.

Secondly it makes the state no better than the criminals it executes.

Thirdly the very real possibility of error. You can take life, but not give it back.

1. It is a punishment – doesn’t have to deter anyone.

2. That’s just your opinion – many don’t share it

3. But there are plenty that are guilty beyond any doubt – especially serial killers (Milat, Deyner) and mass murderers (Knight, Bryant)

All punishments laid down in law are premeditated – the whole state sanctioned premeditated murder line is just soooo hysterical.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137490 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #66 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:24am BigOl64 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:17am: 2. No it doesn't, a dead scumbag is nothing more than a dead scumbag; there is no moral issue here.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137490 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #67 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:37am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am: What is the death penalty if it is not premeditated killing? Yep, it's premeditated killing. Nobody is going to argue with you on that point. Premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. Quite disturbing.
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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #68 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:43am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

What is the death penalty if it is not premeditated killing?

Yep, it's premeditated killing.

Nobody is going to argue with you on that point.

Premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. Quite disturbing.

Only if you are a fully functioning soft c0ck, otherwise it's nothing more than throwing out the garbage.

The state kills lots and lots of people, Australia has been carrying out state sanctioned killing since federation. At least killing scumbags is a net benefit.

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FriYAY

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #69 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:46am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

What is the death penalty if it is not premeditated killing?

Yep, it's premeditated killing.

Nobody is going to argue with you on that point.

Premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. Quite disturbing.

LOL

All state sanctioned punishments are premeditated FFS.

You still have to break the law to be punished, yes? The state doesn’t go around looking for people to kill or punish does it? No, they come to them, via heinous despicable crimes.

The premeditated state sanctioned murder line is hysterical bollocks.

Grin

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #70 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:48am

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:43am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

What is the death penalty if it is not premeditated killing?

Yep, it's premeditated killing.

Nobody is going to argue with you on that point.

Premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. Quite disturbing.

Only if you are a fully functioning soft c0ck, otherwise it's nothing more than throwing out the garbage.

Not withstanding your obsession with male genitalia, the death penalty is indeed premeditated, state-sanctioned killing.

This is not an opinion: it's a cold hard fact.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137490 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #71 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:50am FriYAY wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:46am: All state sanctioned punishments are premeditated FFS. Correct. The death penalty is premeditated, state-sanctioned killing.
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Socrates Gold Member Offline A Dog With A Bone Posts: 583 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #72 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:51am You're not getting excited by this are you peccahead?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137490 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Reply #73 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:53am Socrates wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:51am: You're not getting excited by this are you peccahead? What a very strange, irrational, and irrelevant question. Oh, it's you Socrates: now I understand.
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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd...
Reply #74 - Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:54am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2013 at 10:48am:

Not withstanding your obsession with male genitalia, the death penalty is indeed premeditated, state-sanctioned killing.

This is not an opinion: it's a cold hard fact.

And as I pointed out, the state has be sanctioning killing since federation and will continue to do so; so fvcken what. It is merely and extension of the status quo and an overall benefit.

Mentioning once that you are a soft c0ck, isn't quite an obsession now is it, unless the definition of obsession has change in the last day or so.

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Poll
Question: Do you support the death penalty?
yes 7 (50.0%) no 6 (42.9%) not sure 1 (7.1%) Total votes: 14 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jul 1^st, 2013 at 7:19pm »