Australian Politics Forum - Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.

imcrookonit Ex Member	Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth. Reply #30 - Jul 4^th, 2013 at 12:03pm The war in America between the north and the south, didn't go the way some wanted. The result was the north won, and it put an end to slavery.
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ashleyrussel

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #31 - Jul 4^th, 2013 at 7:12pm

I hope they got solution with these problem. It needs a lot of effort must be done by the government to solve these issue. But if in case you are an office worker, you might be spending most of your waking life inside those sardine cans of woe known as cubicles. If you are stuck in an office space can and rely on the income you get for stewing in corporate preservative juices, act like a good little fish and display amazing workplace conduct. Here are a few not-so-obvious suggestions for what not to do at your cubicle. Keep away from these things because you fear unemployment and drowning in debt.Joblessness hurts, even more than spending much of your days in a cubicle. Keep away from doing any of these things while you are in your office tomb and "The Man" will not fire you. More here.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #32 - Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:05pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

thank god crook, that people like you and me can see that the union demands for higher wages and penalty rates are resulting in this tragic unemployment.

i applaud your efforts crook, to curb the power of the unions , and assist small business to employ these young people.

thankfully , you can see that union demands will see them thrown on the scrap heap of unemployment and i am grateful for your many posts recognising the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity growth

(*Roger, air strike on the way in - this is a big one - tell your people to get their heads down and hold their breath)...

Your one valid point is "the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity " - wages rise to meet cost of living which then rises to meet wage rises - it's a never-ending cycle and nobody wins....the only valid question is:-

Who will be the first to take a pay drop? The cost of living factors or the workers? Who is under more control here?

In one - the workers are - so it falls upon those who raise the cost of living to accept a freeze and maybe a downturn - so that wages might begin to come down again. Prime amongst those factors of COL rise are 'privatised government' things - where the only outcome was the addition of an extra layer of cost through both government shareholding and taxation..... good work if you can get it!

Great work again... take a bonus, politicians.... add a little more to your healthy retirement fund....

*dons kevlar and awaits barrage of vehement ad hominauseums - coin of the realm here with 3-4 users*....

ADDS:- You know - it always amazes me - even those comfortable and soooo conservative public servants, and I've worked with some, who will not rock their golden boat and just love to pummel those filthy lower-class Union workers, never seem to realise that it is the Union movement and the pressure of the workers that leads to their pay rises, too. When the Arbitration or whoever they are now people give a pay rise, then it flows on to the non-unionised shops as well - NOBODY is excluded from the benefits of the Unions' work in working out how much is needed to continue to survive and receive a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, and then presenting the case at huge cost before that commission of whatever.

Who do you think does the spadework and presents the case? YOU? Kevin Rudd and his henchmen? Tony Abbott and his henchmen, the near-forgotten Greens and theirs?....

Fine - go without....would you rather that the government enforce a fascist freeze on wages, reduce pensions as Maggie 'Ding Dong' Thatcher did with War Veterans while neglecting the wounded Falklands Vets needs, and let the cards fall as they may? You prepared to go first?

Lay on, MacDuff - and cursed be he who first cries 'Hold!'!

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« Last Edit: Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:18pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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aquascoot

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #33 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 6:29am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:05pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

thank god crook, that people like you and me can see that the union demands for higher wages and penalty rates are resulting in this tragic unemployment.

i applaud your efforts crook, to curb the power of the unions , and assist small business to employ these young people.

thankfully , you can see that union demands will see them thrown on the scrap heap of unemployment and i am grateful for your many posts recognising the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity growth

(*Roger, air strike on the way in - this is a big one - tell your people to get their heads down and hold their breath)...

Your one valid point is "the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity " - wages rise to meet cost of living which then rises to meet wage rises - it's a never-ending cycle and nobody wins....the only valid question is:-

Who will be the first to take a pay drop? The cost of living factors or the workers? Who is under more control here?

In one - the workers are - so it falls upon those who raise the cost of living to accept a freeze and maybe a downturn - so that wages might begin to come down again. Prime amongst those factors of COL rise are 'privatised government' things - where the only outcome was the addition of an extra layer of cost through both government shareholding and taxation..... good work if you can get it!

Great work again... take a bonus, politicians.... add a little more to your healthy retirement fund....

*dons kevlar and awaits barrage of vehement ad hominauseums - coin of the realm here with 3-4 users*....

ADDS:- You know - it always amazes me - even those comfortable and soooo conservative public servants, and I've worked with some, who will not rock their golden boat and just love to pummel those filthy lower-class Union workers, never seem to realise that it is the Union movement and the pressure of the workers that leads to their pay rises, too. When the Arbitration or whoever they are now people give a pay rise, then it flows on to the non-unionised shops as well - NOBODY is excluded from the benefits of the Unions' work in working out how much is needed to continue to survive and receive a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, and then presenting the case at huge cost before that commission of whatever.

Who do you think does the spadework and presents the case? YOU? Kevin Rudd and his henchmen? Tony Abbott and his henchmen, the near-forgotten Greens and theirs?....

Fine - go without....would you rather that the government enforce a fascist freeze on wages, reduce pensions as Maggie 'Ding Dong' Thatcher did with War Veterans while neglecting the wounded Falklands Vets needs, and let the cards fall as they may? You prepared to go first?

Lay on, MacDuff - and cursed be he who first cries 'Hold!'!

the truth is this.

workers are "selling' their labor on a market in EXACTLY the same was as a retailer sells clothes or a food outlet sells meals.

this is competitive and as a free market should lead to a drive to the top ,(not the bottom , the leftards always harp on about). it should lead to a drive to excellence.

but imagine if we "unionised" food outlets and unionised clothing stores and said all meals must be sold at the same price, all dresses at the same price. what would be the result of this collective bargaining?

absolute crap food and absolute shoddy clothes. without competition, who would give a f#ck.

same with labor, you want exclellent
teachers
doctors
footballers
carpenters
shop assistants

then
FREE UP THE LABOR MARKET and get rid of this mentality that all workers deserve the same.
not all small businesses earn the same rate, why are these employees who risk no capital entitled to the cream. Wink

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The Heartless Felon

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #34 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 6:39am

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 9:38am:

Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different".
We've been there before...

Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense.

If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone.

Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad?

Why so wrong felon?

See this means Im angry Angry

There are none of these in my post. No Angry

means no anger.

No emoticon mean no emotion, just information.

But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one. Grin

(laughing at you)

So the next time you get bad service in a shop or restaurant, you'll draw them a frowny face? That'll show 'em...

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #35 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 7:06am

Sorry - but the workers do not sell their labour on a free and open market - their wages are prescribed. The level of cost of living issues, such as housing, power and so forth, are governed by market forces and are thus subject to abuse.

The workers are the only ones who are paid under awards and agreements, and who have little to no control or autonomy over that. They are the only ones in a controlled market place.

It thus behoves those who are not in that controlled market place to either be controlled or control themselves... I'm awaiting a fly-past of pigs. Roll Eyes

"but imagine if we "unionised" food outlets and unionised clothing stores and said all meals must be sold at the same price, all dresses at the same price. what would be the result of this collective bargaining?

absolute crap food and absolute shoddy clothes. without competition, who would give a f#ck."

- that's exactly why we get shoddy work - they have no incentive and no proper direction and no autonomy - remember Boeing? They gave to their workers a personal autonomy and responsibility for 'their' own aircraft, and the results were a 90%+ drop in post manufacturing repairs.

Competition has its upper limit - it's called greed..... when all the same business are equally greedy and exploitative - where is there an open market for workers - and don't forget employment - yup - you can operate on that free market - take it or leave it!

Also - think it through - are not the workers also competing with business for a fair wage etc and fair standard of living? Each is a legal entity - as is government BTW - let's start thinking here....

I'm in the business of making money - you are in the business of making money - will we compete fairly across the board or will one of us go for greed and ruin it for both?

OH:- and I'm not a 'leftard' - I'm far too radical for that...... now gimme some more rhetoric and hyperbole and ad hominem.... the day would not be complete without it!

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« Last Edit: Jul 5^th, 2013 at 7:16am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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aquascoot

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #36 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 8:10am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

Sorry - but the workers do not sell their labour on a free and open market - their wages are prescribed. The level of cost of living issues, such as housing, power and so forth, are governed by market forces and are thus subject to abuse.

The workers are the only ones who are paid under awards and agreements, and who have little to no control or autonomy over that. They are the only ones in a controlled market place.

It thus behoves those who are not in that controlled market place to either be controlled or control themselves... I'm awaiting a fly-past of pigs. Roll Eyes

"but imagine if we "unionised" food outlets and unionised clothing stores and said all meals must be sold at the same price, all dresses at the same price. what would be the result of this collective bargaining?

absolute crap food and absolute shoddy clothes. without competition, who would give a f#ck."

- that's exactly why we get shoddy work - they have no incentive and no proper direction and no autonomy - remember Boeing? They gave to their workers a personal autonomy and responsibility for 'their' own aircraft, and the results were a 90%+ drop in post manufacturing repairs.

Competition has its upper limit - it's called greed..... when all the same business are equally greedy and exploitative - where is there an open market for workers - and don't forget employment - yup - you can operate on that free market - take it or leave it!

Also - think it through - are not the workers also competing with business for a fair wage etc and fair standard of living? Each is a legal entity - as is government BTW - let's start thinking here....

I'm in the business of making money - you are in the business of making money - will we compete fairly across the board or will one of us go for greed and ruin it for both?

OH:- and I'm not a 'leftard' - I'm far too radical for that...... now gimme some more rhetoric and hyperbole and ad hominem.... the day would not be complete without it!

actually just giving you facts.

free up the labor market, stop making a good worker a commodity that must be paid the same as a poor worker.
allow good workers to sell their skills on the open market in the same way roger federer and tiger woods sell their skills. seems fair and promotes excellence.

think we should unionise the USA golf and wimbledon. want all players paid an hourly rate.

sounds like a recipe for mediocrity and a drive to the bottom. very very unhelpful Wink

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BigOl64

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #37 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 8:42am

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 6:39am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 9:38am:

Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different".
We've been there before...

Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense.

If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone.

Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad?

Why so wrong felon?

See this means Im angry Angry

There are none of these in my post. No Angry

means no anger.

No emoticon mean no emotion, just information.

But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one. Grin

(laughing at you)

So the next time you get bad service in a shop or restaurant, you'll draw them a frowny face? That'll show 'em...

Yes, because I always communicate in writing to people standing right in front of me. My god, please don't talk to me anymore I'm losing intelligence just reading your replies.

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The Heartless Felon

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #38 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 10:08am

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 8:42am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 6:39am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 9:38am:

Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different".
We've been there before...

Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense.

If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone.

Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad?

Why so wrong felon?

See this means Im angry Angry

There are none of these in my post. No Angry

means no anger.

No emoticon mean no emotion, just information.

But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one. Grin

(laughing at you)

So the next time you get bad service in a shop or restaurant, you'll draw them a frowny face? That'll show 'em...

Yes, because I always communicate in writing to people standing right in front of me. My god, please don't talk to me anymore I'm losing intelligence just reading your replies.

Verbal skills aint what they might be, eh?

Written ones aren't much chop either...

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ian

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Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.
Reply #39 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 10:08am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:51am:

cods wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:48am:

since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago..

didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer????

I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me.

In WA, kids have to stay in school or training or approved work (or in a combination of approved options) until the end of the year in which they turn 17.

I agree: a 15 year old in full-time employment seems like child labour.

Incorrect. Children can leave at 15.

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BigOl64 Gold Member Offline Posts: 14438 Townsville QLD Gender:	Re: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth. Reply #40 - Jul 5^th, 2013 at 10:33am The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 10:08am: Verbal skills aint what they might be, eh? Written ones aren't much chop either... Oh what a stinging rebuke, well after that I've learned my lesson. Quit while you're behind
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