Australian Politics Forum - Proof they are economic migrants

Aussie

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #135 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm

Datalife wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:35pm:

The link was sort of hard to follow, but, doing the best I can with it................it seems those referred to were inbound to Indonesia, not leaving Indonesia.

Agreed, it was a bit confusing, especially this bit,

Quote:

boat carrying 56 asylum seekers bound for Australia’s Christmas Island were detained by Maritime Police off the coast of Tangerang, Banten, on Wednesday, police said.

LOL.

I note in another post you are a solicitor. Any chance of a name? I would hate to accidentally employ you if that's what you understood from from viewing two easily understandable links, one containing in large font, "Indonesian Police Detain 56 Asylum Seekers Off Coast of Banten".

Hate to hit you with anything complex, like say a parking ticket. Grin

My comments flow from those by you, and what preceded it. The suggestion was that it was illegal for a boat to leave Indonesia by boat, and I joined the chorus who cried, 'rubbish.'

Ian then produced the article about a boat load arrested at Banten.

I was correct in pointing out that said boat, while probably having 'Botany Bay' as its final destination was then, at point of arrest, inbound into Indonesia, not outbound out of Indonesia.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Proof they are economic migrants Reply #136 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:34pm No, you arent correct. read the article again.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38820 Gender:	Re: Proof they are economic migrants Reply #137 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:39pm ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:34pm: No, you arent correct. read the article again. I have already done my research. Get a map, Ian.
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Datalife

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #138 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:45pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

My comments flow from those by you, and what preceded it. The suggestion was that it was illegal for a boat to leave Indonesia by boat, and I joined the chorus who cried, 'rubbish.'

Ian then produced the article about a boat load arrested at Banten.

I was correct in pointing out that said boat, while probably having 'Botany Bay' as its final destination was then, at point of arrest, inbound into Indonesia, not outbound out of Indonesia.

LOL, so what? Who cared? That was your own strawman, here is what was asked for and it was replied.

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

I'm willing to be educated. Can you provide some links, please?

The links you requested were provided, easily understandable links, I even reposted one for you because you found them hard to follow.

I have no clue why you decided to build a strawman and quibble about where they were arrested. Not saying you are not free to do so, just don't expect anyone to follow you.

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« Last Edit: Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:51pm by Datalife »

"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #139 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:47pm

Soren wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 9:14pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:33pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:17pm:

Suddenly, even refugee advocates are talking about stemming the tide by making Malaysia and Indonesia act responsibly.
On Your ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/refugee-advocate-indonesi...

He is explaining the difference between obligations to refugees and providing immigration settlement and family reunion, ie primary and secondary refugee movements. (Which is what I have been trying to explain to the thick 'n murkies on here - Greg, Don, SOB, Freeman et al.)

Actually what he was saying is exactly what ive been saying: setup proper protection in indonesia and then as necessary send people back. Good to see you missed his main point.

Listen again. Primary and secondary refugee movements. Get back when you've got your head around that.

i got my head around it a long time ago, thanks. What was said was that it is important to understand the difference between those refugees who are in flight and those who aren't, and to ensure that the solution resulted in adequate protection in Indonesia, working with the UNHCR, in order to be able to send people back and give them PROPER protection. Because as it stands, we can't send people back to Indonesia given just like Malayasia they aren't a refugee convention signatory, and as such don't afford refugees the same protection as those we are bound to. In essence, it is quite understandable by refugees leave Indonesia for Australia, given their lack of recognition and instead treatment of refugees as illegal migrants. And with this being the case, you can't call a refugee a country shopper when they come from Indonesia to Australia, and likewise you can't send them back. So, if we were to atually work out a proper solution whereby the refugees are afford protection while they were being processed for resettlement in Indonesia, or what had you, then we'd actually be able to create this fictionary queue, and as such send people to the back of it when they come by boat Makes sense, and is something I have been saying for a very long time.

Not to mention that it meets our internationa obligations as well as our own human rights valus and doesn't just clean our hands of a problem.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Aussie

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #140 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:56pm

Datalife, let's start again and see if the white noise does not drown it out. You said:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

Now, let's have a link about Indonesian Authorities arresting boats leaving Indonesia.....no matter where they are heading to.

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ian

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #141 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:59pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:39pm:

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:34pm:

No, you arent correct. read the article again.

I have already done my research. Get a map, Ian.

You cant be so stupid, really. I know where Tanggerang is, Ive been there. There is no point to be made, these boats commonly leave from points near Jakarta. the crews are recruited and picked up from remote Indonesion villages, the boat sails to a predetermined destination near Jakarta because that is where the illegal imigrants are all living and can be easily transported to, picks up the illegals and then takes off. i cant tell you any more but you dont have to be a rocket scientist, really.

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ian

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #142 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:00pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:56pm:

Datalife, let's start again and see if the white noise does not drown it out. You said:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

Now, let's have a link about Indonesian Authorities arresting boats leaving Indonesia.....no matter where they are heading to.

I gave you one. you are rapidly heading to my idiot list.

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Aussie

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #143 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:05pm

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:00pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:56pm:

Datalife, let's start again and see if the white noise does not drown it out. You said:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

Now, let's have a link about Indonesian Authorities arresting boats leaving Indonesia.....no matter where they are heading to.

I gave you one. you are rapidly heading to my idiot list.

Good.

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Datalife

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #144 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:06pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:56pm:

Datalife, let's start again and see if the white noise does not drown it out. You said:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

Now, let's have a link about Indonesian Authorities arresting boats leaving Indonesia.....no matter where they are heading to.

Actually I didn't say that. And I refer you to my previous post. Seems to me you are upset not that asylum seekers were detained as indicated in the provided links, but upset because of where they were detained.

If that is your issue it may be that you need to take it up with the Indons and point out to them that where they are detaining people is according to your opinion procedurally incorrect.

Unlike yourself, I am not equipped to inform the Indon authorities where and where they may or may not detain asylum seekers.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Aussie

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #145 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:15pm

Datalife wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:56pm:

Datalife, let's start again and see if the white noise does not drown it out. You said:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

Now, let's have a link about Indonesian Authorities arresting boats leaving Indonesia.....no matter where they are heading to.

Actually I didn't say that. And I refer you to my previous post. Seems to me you are upset not that asylum seekers were detained as indicated in the provided links, but upset because of where they were detained.

If that is your issue it may be that you need to take it up with the Indons and point out to them that where they are detaining people is according to your opinion procedurally incorrect.

Unlike yourself, I am not equipped to inform the Indon authorities where and where they may or may not detain asylum seekers.

I thought you (or another) said that Indonesian Authorities arrested boat people leaving Indonesia....ie heading south of the main Indonesian Islands, bound for 'Botany Bay.'

Did I get that wrong?

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Datalife

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #146 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:31pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:15pm:

I thought you (or another) said that Indonesian Authorities arrested boat people leaving Indonesia....ie heading south of the main Indonesian Islands, bound for 'Botany Bay.'

Did I get that wrong?

Judge for yourself, this is what was posted and your request

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

I'm willing to be educated. Can you provide some links, please?

And in response, this link was provided

Quote:

Indonesian Police Detain 56 Asylum Seekers Off Coast of Banten

June 28, 2013

A boat carrying 56 asylum seekers bound for Australia’s Christmas Island were detained by Maritime Police off the coast of Tangerang, Banten, on Wednesday, police said.

Police arrested the boat’s captain, a man identified as Darwis, and the crew of the Kian Santang boat after spotting the vessel in the waters west of Laki Island, off the coast of Mauk, Tangerang, Jakarta Police spokesman Sr. Comr. Rikwanto said on Thursday. The 56 asylum seekers found on-board were transferred to the Tangerang Immigration Office for processing.

“The Tangerang and Jakarta maritime police stopped the boat and its captain, Darwis, as well as two crew members in waters west of Laki island near Mauk in Tangerang,” Rikwanto said. “There were 56 illegal immigrants on board — 41 men, 11 women and four children. The ship was transporting them to Christmas Island.”

Rikwanto said that the boat, the captain, the crew and the asylum seekers were taken to the Jakarta headquarters of the maritime police.

“Yesterday, at around 5:30 p.m. all immigrants had been handed over to the Tangerang Immigration Office,” Rikwanto said.

Indonesia is a common transit point for Australia-bound asylum seekers, where thousands of potential refugees risk their lives aboard leaky boats operated by people smuggling syndicates.

Once more Aussie, your issue about where they were intercepted and detained is a strawman injected by yourself.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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