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Proof they are economic migrants (Read 6917 times)

Socrates

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #60 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:21pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

As I said, I'm stretching a bit, but you are the labor supporter, and he's the Labor government's Minister for Foreign Affairs, so I guess he must be speaking honestly..........or maybe he's talking rubbish like the rest of the leftards, however on this occasions it is my humble opinion that he's nearer the mark than he probably realises..........who knows, I do not vote Labor?

When you say "Labor supporter", you are correct in that I would much rather see a Labor Government after the next election.

However, that doesn't mean that I think every member of the ALP is honest. Far from it.

In the next few months we will be seeing a lot of dishonesty coming from all political parties.

In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters.

Now you're just desperately changing the subject...........I object Your Honour!

An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #61 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:27pm

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:03pm:

[
They've done nothing illegal under Australian law.

I'm not talking about the rest of the world.

Australia.

So you are all for taking in criminals?

No, I'm not "all for" taking in criminals. Far from it.

However, I am in favour of letting people claim asylum and having those claims assessed.

If, after the processing, they are found to be non-genuine they should be sent home. No questions asked.

If they are found to be genuine refugees but have convictions (or pending charges) for serious crimes - murder, rape, etc. - then we should definitely think twice about letting them stay in the country. We have enough home grown murderers and rapists: we don't need to import them.

If the only crime they've committed is unlawfully crossing a border in order to claim asylum in another country, and they are ultimately found to be genuine refugees, I have no problem with them being allowed to stay in this country.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #62 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:29pm

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

As I said, I'm stretching a bit, but you are the labor supporter, and he's the Labor government's Minister for Foreign Affairs, so I guess he must be speaking honestly..........or maybe he's talking rubbish like the rest of the leftards, however on this occasions it is my humble opinion that he's nearer the mark than he probably realises..........who knows, I do not vote Labor?

When you say "Labor supporter", you are correct in that I would much rather see a Labor Government after the next election.

However, that doesn't mean that I think every member of the ALP is honest. Far from it.

In the next few months we will be seeing a lot of dishonesty coming from all political parties.

In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters.

Now you're just desperately changing the subject...........I object Your Honour!

No, I'm staying right on topic.

Bob has presented no evidence to support his claim about economic migrants.

"In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters."

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #63 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:00pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:16pm:

Genuine refugees would stop at the first safe place they come to. These people - economic refugees - pass through more than one safe place intent on reaching Australia because this incompetent government not only lays out the welcome mat, but give them freebies to the tune of thousands of dollars. Five years after arriving, most are still on welfare.

How many times does it have to be explained to you? Also how many times do we have to ask 'what safe countries' for you to realise there arent any?

SOB

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Alinta

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #64 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:22pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

As I said, I'm stretching a bit, but you are the labor supporter, and he's the Labor government's Minister for Foreign Affairs, so I guess he must be speaking honestly..........or maybe he's talking rubbish like the rest of the leftards, however on this occasions it is my humble opinion that he's nearer the mark than he probably realises..........who knows, I do not vote Labor?

When you say "Labor supporter", you are correct in that I would much rather see a Labor Government after the next election.

However, that doesn't mean that I think every member of the ALP is honest. Far from it.

In the next few months we will be seeing a lot of dishonesty coming from all political parties.

In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters.

Now you're just desperately changing the subject...........I object Your Honour!

No, I'm staying right on topic.

Bob has presented no evidence to support his claim about economic migrants.

"In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters."

I tend to agree.........but is your issue that Carr is making an untrue statement in respect of fraudulent claims by asylum seekers???? ......or that he has not (at this stage anyway) publically substantiated his statement with "evidence"?

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ian

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #65 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

No, I'm not "all for" taking in criminals. Far from it.

However, I am in favour of letting people claim asylum and having those claims assessed.

If, after the processing, they are found to be non-genuine they should be sent home. No questions asked.

If they are found to be genuine refugees but have convictions (or pending charges) for serious crimes - murder, rape, etc. - then we should definitely think twice about letting them stay in the country. We have enough home grown murderers and rapists: we don't need to import them.

If the only crime they've committed is unlawfully crossing a border in order to claim asylum in another country, and they are ultimately found to be genuine refugees, I have no problem with them being allowed to stay in this country.

Thank you, I rest my case. They are illegal immigrants.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #66 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:34pm

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

No, I'm not "all for" taking in criminals. Far from it.

However, I am in favour of letting people claim asylum and having those claims assessed.

If, after the processing, they are found to be non-genuine they should be sent home. No questions asked.

If they are found to be genuine refugees but have convictions (or pending charges) for serious crimes - murder, rape, etc. - then we should definitely think twice about letting them stay in the country. We have enough home grown murderers and rapists: we don't need to import them.

If the only crime they've committed is unlawfully crossing a border in order to claim asylum in another country, and they are ultimately found to be genuine refugees, I have no problem with them being allowed to stay in this country.

Thank you, I rest my case. They are illegal immigrants.

They arent even immigrants - they are asylum seekers

SOB

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I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Karnal

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #67 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

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Alinta

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #68 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:57pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

I've asked the same question here Karnal.......seems the answer is no. Neither has my significant research elsewhere shed much light.

I know from my days working in Intell that there are identified problems with the refugee determination process.........and that fraudulent refugee claims circumvent the system and are granted status.

Now that Carr has made his statement, I'm guessing more info will be put into the public arena during campaign debate.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #69 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:04pm

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

No, I'm not "all for" taking in criminals. Far from it.

However, I am in favour of letting people claim asylum and having those claims assessed.

If, after the processing, they are found to be non-genuine they should be sent home. No questions asked.

If they are found to be genuine refugees but have convictions (or pending charges) for serious crimes - murder, rape, etc. - then we should definitely think twice about letting them stay in the country. We have enough home grown murderers and rapists: we don't need to import them.

If the only crime they've committed is unlawfully crossing a border in order to claim asylum in another country, and they are ultimately found to be genuine refugees, I have no problem with them being allowed to stay in this country.

Thank you, I rest my case. They are illegal immigrants.

No, it doesn't make them "illegal immigrants".

You really are confusing yourself.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #70 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:06pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:16pm:

Genuine refugees would stop at the first safe place they come to. These people - economic refugees - pass through more than one safe place intent on reaching Australia because this incompetent government not only lays out the welcome mat, but give them freebies to the tune of thousands of dollars. Five years after arriving, most are still on welfare.

How many times does it have to be explained to you? Also how many times do we have to ask 'what safe countries' for you to realise there arent any?

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Last time I looked, we weren't seeing boat loads of Indonesians fleeing from persecution by Indon authorities! That would seem to suggest that Indonesia is fairly safe.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #71 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:09pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

I've asked the same question here Karnal.......seems the answer is no. Neither has my significant research elsewhere shed much light.

I know from my days working in Intell that there are identified problems with the refugee determination process.........and that fraudulent refugee claims circumvent the system and are granted status.

Now that Carr has made his statement, I'm guessing more info will be put into the public arena during campaign debate.

At its most basic level, the claiming of asylum requires that the applicant should have a legitimate fear for their life if they were to return to their homeland. That's pretty much the gist of it.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #72 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:13pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Socrates wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 1:08pm:

As I said, I'm stretching a bit, but you are the labor supporter, and he's the Labor government's Minister for Foreign Affairs, so I guess he must be speaking honestly..........or maybe he's talking rubbish like the rest of the leftards, however on this occasions it is my humble opinion that he's nearer the mark than he probably realises..........who knows, I do not vote Labor?

When you say "Labor supporter", you are correct in that I would much rather see a Labor Government after the next election.

However, that doesn't mean that I think every member of the ALP is honest. Far from it.

In the next few months we will be seeing a lot of dishonesty coming from all political parties.

In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters.

Now you're just desperately changing the subject...........I object Your Honour!

No, I'm staying right on topic.

Bob has presented no evidence to support his claim about economic migrants.

"In this case, I think Bob is trying to get support from the more conservative swinging voters."

I tend to agree.........but is your issue that Carr is making an untrue statement in respect of fraudulent claims by asylum seekers???? ......or that he has not (at this stage anyway) publically substantiated his statement with "evidence"?

I want to see some evidence.

I'm not saying he's definitely wrong, but at this stage he hasn't backed it up with anything.

And, if it is shown that people on the boats are not fleeing persecution - send them home.

Simple.

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skippy.

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #73 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:13pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

I've asked the same question here Karnal.......seems the answer is no. Neither has my significant research elsewhere shed much light.

I know from my days working in Intell that there are identified problems with the refugee determination process.........and that fraudulent refugee claims circumvent the system and are granted status.

Now that Carr has made his statement, I'm guessing more info will be put into the public arena during campaign debate.

At its most basic level, the claiming of asylum requires that the applicant should have a legitimate fear for their life if they were to return to their homeland. That's pretty much the gist of it.

Liar. If that were the case none of the WW2 Jews would have come here AFTER the war had finished. Wow, some people are are so ignorant, you've made a career of it.

freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL
Click onWWW below

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Alinta

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #74 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:16pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

I've asked the same question here Karnal.......seems the answer is no. Neither has my significant research elsewhere shed much light.

I know from my days working in Intell that there are identified problems with the refugee determination process.........and that fraudulent refugee claims circumvent the system and are granted status.

Now that Carr has made his statement, I'm guessing more info will be put into the public arena during campaign debate.

At its most basic level, the claiming of asylum requires that the applicant should have a legitimate fear for their life if they were to return to their homeland. That's pretty much the gist of it.

I should have been more precise in my post.............I have not been able to find info on the assessment process of asylum claims...

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