Australian Politics Forum - Proof they are economic migrants

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138740 Gender:	Re: Proof they are economic migrants Reply #75 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate_Committees?url=im...
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John Smith

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #76 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

bambu wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Indonesia let them in, so Indonesia should process them, and let them stay there ...

Are you familiar with the 1951 UN Convention?

http://www.unhcr.org/protect/PROTECTION/3b73b0d63.pdf

Indonesia isnt signatory to this convention. Paying to get on a boat to cross into foreign waters from Indonesia is illegal in Indonesia..

really? So if I went for a holiday into Indo and I wanted to charter a fishing boat for a few days to take me into international waters for some deep sea fishing, the Indo's won't let me?

Bump for Ian

I am curious for you to explain your earlier statement. Answer the question please.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #77 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:29pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

I've asked the same question here Karnal.......seems the answer is no. Neither has my significant research elsewhere shed much light.

I know from my days working in Intell that there are identified problems with the refugee determination process.........and that fraudulent refugee claims circumvent the system and are granted status.

Now that Carr has made his statement, I'm guessing more info will be put into the public arena during campaign debate.

At its most basic level, the claiming of asylum requires that the applicant should have a legitimate fear for their life if they were to return to their homeland. That's pretty much the gist of it.

I should have been more precise in my post.............I have not been able to find info on the assessment process of asylum claims...

Well, that's easy under this government. Because they've laid out the welcome mat and our immigration staff are being flooded with applications from these people, the ALP has a policy of "eeny meenie miney moe!"...

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John Smith

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #78 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:39pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:29pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

I’ve come around on this issue. Two Sri Lankans I know agree: most of the ones coming here are economic migrants, not asylum seekers.

Everyone deserves to have their claim assessed, but there needs to be some burden of proof placed on the asylum seekers. I don’t know how much fact checking Immigration officials are able to do, but I would have thought that calling contacts back in Iran or Sri Lanka for proof would be a big part of the job.

And there needs to be exactly the same burden of proof - and proceedures - for plane arrivals. I have no idea why these are two separate categories. Still, surely if you’re able to get a passport, get on a plane and leave a country, it shows - on the face of it - a lack of official government persecution, unless they’re supporting emmigration/exile.

I have no idea what the criteria for seeking asylum is, or how it’s measured. Does anyone know?

I've asked the same question here Karnal.......seems the answer is no. Neither has my significant research elsewhere shed much light.

I know from my days working in Intell that there are identified problems with the refugee determination process.........and that fraudulent refugee claims circumvent the system and are granted status.

Now that Carr has made his statement, I'm guessing more info will be put into the public arena during campaign debate.

At its most basic level, the claiming of asylum requires that the applicant should have a legitimate fear for their life if they were to return to their homeland. That's pretty much the gist of it.

I should have been more precise in my post.............I have not been able to find info on the assessment process of asylum claims...

Well, that's easy under this government. Because they've laid out the welcome mat and our immigration staff are being flooded with applications from these people, the ALP has a policy of "eeny meenie miney moe!"...

do you ever have anything remotely intelligent to say?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Alinta

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #79 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:54pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate_Committees?url=im...

thanks........most useful to those of us who want some context in advance of hearing what aspects, and how, Labor plans to tighten up the determination process in respect of fraudulent asylum claims.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #80 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:04pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate_Committees?url=im...

thanks........most useful to those of us who want some context in advance of hearing what aspects, and how, Labor plans to tighten up the determination process in respect of fraudulent asylum claims.

So... Labor plans to close the barn door after the horse has bolted? Good one!!! Cheesy

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ian

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #81 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:04pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

bambu wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Indonesia let them in, so Indonesia should process them, and let them stay there ...

Are you familiar with the 1951 UN Convention?

http://www.unhcr.org/protect/PROTECTION/3b73b0d63.pdf

Indonesia isnt signatory to this convention. Paying to get on a boat to cross into foreign waters from Indonesia is illegal in Indonesia..

really? So if I went for a holiday into Indo and I wanted to charter a fishing boat for a few days to take me into international waters for some deep sea fishing, the Indo's won't let me?

Bump for Ian

I am curious for you to explain your earlier statement. Answer the question please.

territory is the appropriate word, not waters. History is full of people being shot as spies after crossing into foreign territory without the appropriate documents.

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John Smith

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #82 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:10pm

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:

ian wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:58am:

bambu wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Indonesia let them in, so Indonesia should process them, and let them stay there ...

Are you familiar with the 1951 UN Convention?

http://www.unhcr.org/protect/PROTECTION/3b73b0d63.pdf

Indonesia isnt signatory to this convention. Paying to get on a boat to cross into foreign waters from Indonesia is illegal in Indonesia..

really? So if I went for a holiday into Indo and I wanted to charter a fishing boat for a few days to take me into international waters for some deep sea fishing, the Indo's won't let me?

Bump for Ian

I am curious for you to explain your earlier statement. Answer the question please.

territory is the appropriate word, not waters. History is full of people being shot as spies after crossing into foreign territory without the appropriate documents.

hardly relevant ... not when you are talking about aquatic territory. Most governments give you a chance to get to port to provide the documents, .... and if you are heading away from their territory, you are hardly at risk of spying on them. We aren't talking about cold war USSR here.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Aussie

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #83 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:14pm

Ian,

Quote:

territory is the appropriate word, not waters. History is full of people being shot as spies after crossing into foreign territory without the appropriate documents.

Aren't you getting a tad mixed up here. Indonesia could not care less if a vessell sails over the horizon. Where is the relevance of 'spies' entering their territory, when the subject under discussion is people leaving their territory?

Cheesy

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Alinta

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #84 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:16pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:04pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate_Committees?url=im...

thanks........most useful to those of us who want some context in advance of hearing what aspects, and how, Labor plans to tighten up the determination process in respect of fraudulent asylum claims.

So... Labor plans to close the barn door after the horse has bolted? Good one!!! Cheesy

I'm not sure of details on how either party plans to address the issue..........but I AM sure I want to be in the best position to assess the policy of both parties.....

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red baron

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #85 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:43pm

Greggerry, just dropped in to keep the good old Aussie flag flying high, by saying that when Tony Abbott gets in and he will get in; because this 'everyone is in love with Rudd' will, in a few week's time, be about as popular as a pork chop in Jerusalem.

What we have here, just as I predicted, is a false dawn and a false pretender to the throne. The only thing that is missing from KRudd is the little white pony under him, for he surely is a show pony with about as much substance as a meat pie.

So....when Abbott gets in, he will kick the sorry arses of the Indonesian people smugglers and send those sh..ty boats with their illegals in them right back where they came from sh..ty, corrupt Indonesia.

Still whinging like a baby for proof Gregg, if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd chances are it's a ....

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Dnarever

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #86 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:46pm

red baron wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Greggerry, just dropped in to keep the good old Aussie flag flying high, by saying that when Tony Abbott gets in and he will get in; because this 'everyone is in love with Rudd' will, in a few week's time, be about as popular as a pork chop in Jerusalem.

What we have here, just as I predicted, is a false dawn and a false pretender to the throne. The only thing that is missing from KRudd is the little white pony under him, for he surely is a show pony with about as much substance as a meat pie.

So....when Abbott gets in, he will kick the sorry arses of the Indonesian people smugglers and send those sh..ty boats with their illegals in them right back where they came from sh..ty, corrupt Indonesia.

Still whinging like a baby for proof Gregg, if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd chances are it's a ....

about as much substance as a meat pie.

How could you attack Rudds substance and then support Abbott who has made a career out of lacking substance.

if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd chances are it's Something that followed Tony out of the sewer ?

Still whinging like a baby for proof Gregg Obviously they have none.

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ian

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #87 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:49pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:14pm:

Ian,

Quote:

territory is the appropriate word, not waters. History is full of people being shot as spies after crossing into foreign territory without the appropriate documents.

Aren't you getting a tad mixed up here. Indonesia could not care less if a vessell sails over the horizon. Where is the relevance of 'spies' entering their territory, when the subject under discussion is people leaving their territory?

Cheesy

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #88 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:24pm

red baron wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Still whinging like a baby for proof Gregg, if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd chances are it's a ....

I know you have a very limited understanding of things red, but just listen for a minute.

The title of this thread is "Proof they are economic migrants".

Agreed?

The story referred to does not provide any proof that they are economic migrants. It's just an opinion from Bob, backed up with absolutely nothing.

Now, considering the title of the thread, and the lack of proof in the link provided, don't you think it's reasonable to ask where this "proof" actually is?

Or are you just so stupid that you believe everything a politician, talk-back radio host, or newspaper article tells you?

Oh, hang on ...

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Aussie

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Re: Proof they are economic migrants
Reply #89 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:28pm

Quote:

Not at all, as I stated previously, there have been a number of occasions when boats full of alleged asylum seekers have been preparing to leave from Indonesia and these peopel have been arrested and detained by the Indonsion authorities becausae their intent was to commit a crime, i.e cross into Australia without a visa.

I'm willing to be educated. Can you provide some links, please?

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