Australian Politics Forum - Where the Israeil Jews really came from

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from Reply #90 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 10:34pm Look who's talking - a limp-wristed Paki homo with Nam vetaran pretension and a Bradford Poly Cert III in Foucauldian post-colonial identity studies.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96744	Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from Reply #91 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:18pm Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 10:34pm: Look who's talking - a limp-wristed Paki homo with Nam vetaran pretension and a Bradford Poly Cert III in Foucauldian post-colonial identity studies. Yes, so you just said. Now stop putting your stools back in the fridge. They congeal.
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Adamant

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #92 - Jul 11^th, 2013 at 9:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:02pm:

What exactly was your point about the book again? Have you even read it?

I have read it Gandalf, I would observe that most people that do not believe in a supreme "Diety" questions the status of ones own knowledge. Unlike a certain cult that only wishes to maim kill and slaughter those that do not agree with its ideologey.

I am in constant question mode on all facets of being!

You have admitted owning Sebags book. Answer the question "Why did the only prophet of islam pray to the JEWS!

P/S Been on hols and am up north at the mo but "I WILL BE BACK"

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #93 - Jul 11^th, 2013 at 10:13pm

Adamant wrote on Jul 11^th, 2013 at 9:39pm:

Answer the question "Why did the only prophet of islam pray to the JEWS!

I've been asked this several times - always by people who think they are disproving something, or hurling some great insult at me. I never have worked it out.

First thing that you need to understand is that muslims do not "pray to" any persons or object - they pray to God and God alone. What you are really asking is why did muslims pray in the direction of Jerusalem (nb - thats Jerusalem *NOT* "the Jews"). The answer as far as I'm concerned is rather immaterial - since whichever direction they pray, it is always going to be *TO* and *FOR* God. But since you asked, my understanding is that facing Jerusalem was testament to islam's respect for judaism, and acknowledgement that judaism is islam's closest relative. muslims follow the same prophets as jews, and Jerusalem is recognised as the holy "capital" (if you like) of the one true religion started by Abraham and his Israelite descendants. Muhammad himself, according to islamic tradition, descended to heaven from Jerusalem. Even the Quran recognises jews as the first muslims.

So fair enough, I see nothing wrong with praying towards Jerusalem. Over time though, Mecca and the Kabaa became the symbol of islam, especially with the annual pilgramage that every muslim is obliged to carry out at least once in their lifetime. Thus it was only natural for the muslims to start turning their heads to the Kabaa for their prayers.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #94 - Jul 11^th, 2013 at 11:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 9:40pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 9:20pm:

Which is one of the main reasons that it came to a fairly abrupt end, in the name of... er... Islam. The closing of minds has been in the ascendancy in Islam for 800 years. It is still the dominant force.

If you call 500 years an "abrupt end"....

Soren, every time I refute your bvllshit claims about islam's closed mind during the golden age, your only rejoinder is to rattle on about the muslim world's closed mind since the golden age - a point which no one disagrees on.

Gandy, Islam was a dominant force for 7 of those 8 centuries since the golden age in the territories it commanded.
Yet it produced bugger all. Illiteracy is widespread in Muslim countries - in the 21st century. Where is the fvckn golden age of translation of the 11-13th centuries for those Muslims, alive today, yet can't even read and write.

That is why the 200 years of intellectual openness is so atypical of Islam. But you bvggers keep bringing it up as if it outshone the stagnation and backwardness and fanatic illiteracy.

It doesn't.

Your people are backward now. Are you telling them it's OK because 800 years ago they weren't? What are you doing about Muslim backwardness and ignorance? Other than argue with me about it.

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Soren

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #95 - Jul 11^th, 2013 at 11:05pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:18pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 10:34pm:

Look who's talking - a limp-wristed Paki homo with Nam vetaran pretension and a Bradford Poly Cert III in Foucauldian post-colonial identity studies.

Yes, so you just said. Now stop putting your stools back in the fridge.

They congeal.

Stop fapping, dad. You're not still only in Saigon any more.

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2013 at 11:23pm by Soren »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #96 - Jul 11^th, 2013 at 11:29pm

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2013 at 11:03pm:

That is why the 200 years of intellectual openness is so atypical of Islam. But you bvggers keep bringing it up as if it outshone the stagnation and backwardness and fanatic illiteracy.

Firstly, it was 500 years - not 200.

But what do you want me to say? Muslim suck today, and they have sucked intellectually for many centuries - of course they do - I'm not trying to shy away from that.

The reason "we bvggers" keep bringing it up is because you bvggers keep trying to airbrush it out of history. Thats how this discussion started remember? You claiming that big bad backward islam had nothing to do with the great flourishing translation and scientific revolution of the 8th - 13th century. Now that thats been thoroughly disproved (by your own source I might add), you change tack and start focusing on the post golden-age era - and inexplicably claiming what you were so keen on debating about before, is suddenly irrelevant now.

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2013 at 11:41pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #97 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 12:16am

It's not relevant what you did 800 years ago, or only very marginally. What's relevant is what you are doing now. Now you are buggered thanks to your consistent efforts - but you want to be excused on the grounds that you were not buggered 800 years ago.

Ridiculous. I didn't live 800 years ago, nor you. By arguing with me you make it look as if you were buggered by me, for 800 years. But you have been buggered by yourselves for 800 long years.

You are just deflecting from your responsibility by arguing with me, the Jews, the Americans, everyone. But it is you who have buggered yourselves for the last 800 years.
What has happened for the last 800 years? And how will you - will you? - change whatever it was that made you bugger yourselves and everyone you have come into contact with for 800 years?

And don't look at me, it is YOUR culture and your responsibility. What are you doing about it?

(I am speaking French for the sake of brevity, you understand, not out of personal malice.)

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Karnal

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #98 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 1:20am

Ah, but it is relevant, old chap. Never ever, remember? Ever.

All those words you posted. Memories.

Alas, in 800 years people will be saying never ever too. And you’ll be able to pull up your last post and say, you see? An old boy intellectual flowering. A faecal golden age. A cultural and philosophical fapping.

You can tell them all about your days at the University of Balonia and your marvellous stool recipes and all your enlightened, progressive work on this board and be proud of the fine contribution you’ve made to this great moment in history.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #99 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 9:41am

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 12:16am:

It's not relevant what you did 800 years ago, or only very marginally. What's relevant is what you are doing now. Now you are buggered thanks to your consistent efforts - but you want to be excused on the grounds that you were not buggered 800 years ago.

Ridiculous. I didn't live 800 years ago, nor you. By arguing with me you make it look as if you were buggered by me, for 800 years. But you have been buggered by yourselves for 800 long years.

You are just deflecting from your responsibility by arguing with me, the Jews, the Americans, everyone. But it is you who have buggered yourselves for the last 800 years.
What has happened for the last 800 years? And how will you - will you? - change whatever it was that made you bugger yourselves and everyone you have come into contact with for 800 years?

And don't look at me, it is YOUR culture and your responsibility. What are you doing about it?

(I am speaking French for the sake of brevity, you understand, not out of personal malice.)

Two points:

1. You brought it up first. *YOU* were the one claiming the muslims deserve no credit for the golden age. Relevant or not, I'm going to set the record straight when presented with such blatant untruths. Especially when your own evidence says what you claim is complete rubbish. Here's some advise, if you think something is irrelevant to the discussion, don't bring it up - and especially don't make claims about it that simply must be refuted.

2. I think it is important to acknowledge the achievements of the past as a way of addressing the problems of the present. Its proof that if it could be done before, it can be done again. It counters prevailing myths (held by both muslims and non-muslims) that work against the chances of a future revival - like the belief that islam is inherently against learning and exploring new ideas.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #100 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 10:13am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 12:16am:

It's not relevant what you did 800 years ago, or only very marginally. What's relevant is what you are doing now. Now you are buggered thanks to your consistent efforts - but you want to be excused on the grounds that you were not buggered 800 years ago.

Ridiculous. I didn't live 800 years ago, nor you. By arguing with me you make it look as if you were buggered by me, for 800 years. But you have been buggered by yourselves for 800 long years.

You are just deflecting from your responsibility by arguing with me, the Jews, the Americans, everyone. But it is you who have buggered yourselves for the last 800 years.
What has happened for the last 800 years? And how will you - will you? - change whatever it was that made you bugger yourselves and everyone you have come into contact with for 800 years?

And don't look at me, it is YOUR culture and your responsibility. What are you doing about it?

(I am speaking French for the sake of brevity, you understand, not out of personal malice.)

Two points:

1. You brought it up first. *YOU* were the one claiming the muslims deserve no credit for the golden age. Relevant or not, I'm going to set the record straight when presented with such blatant untruths. Especially when your own evidence says what you claim is complete rubbish. Here's some advise, if you think something is irrelevant to the discussion, don't bring it up - and especially don't make claims about it that simply must be refuted.

2. I think it is important to acknowledge the achievements of the past as a way of addressing the problems of the present. Its proof that if it could be done before, it can be done again. It counters prevailing myths (held by both muslims and non-muslims) that work against the chances of a future revival - like the belief that islam is inherently against learning and exploring new ideas.

Yes - let's sum up the old boy's position, shall we?

- The Muselman is backward and inferior now because he's always been backward and inferior. Always. Absolutely. On stilts.
- Okay, so he mightn't have always been backward and inferior, but he is now, and that's the important thing.
- The Muselman bases his religion on lies. Of course he's backward and inferior. His whole worldview is based on a mirage.
- Yes, the old boy might have told a few porkies too, but it was the Muselman's fault. Lie with dogs and you get fleas, innit.
- The Muselman can't reform or mend his ways. It'll never happen. Never ever.
- Well, sure he's giving it a go now, but it'll never work. Islam and liberal democracy are incompatible.
- Okay, so it might work in some places, but look at Pakeestan.
- Mainstream Islam is essentially violent. Always. Absolutely. If they were keen on eradicating terrorism, they'd speak out against it. They never do this. Never ever.
- Oh yes, a few imams might come out to condemn protests and beheading signs, but why don't they stop it?
- Okay, so they might have stopped it on that one occasion, but why didn't they stop it before?
- Muslims cut and run. Instead of reforming their own societies and getting rid of their dictators, they move to the West. If they were so keen on democracy, they'd go back home and fight for it.
- Okay, so many do this, but they're not fighting for democracy, they're fighting for theocracy.
- Okay, so they might be fighting for democracy and not theocracy, but the theocrats will win every time.
- Okay, so the mullahs might not have won this time, but democracy will fail before long. It has to. Muslims want theocracies.
- Right, so they may not actually want theocracies, but they'll get them. Maybe not yet, but soon. Never ever, remember?
- Their backwardness and inferiority goes back to their history. They were always backward and inferior. Always. Absolutely.
- Okay, so they ruled civilization for a few hundred years while the West went through the Dark Ages. So what? It was an aberration. The Muselman is backward and inferior now because he's always been backward and inferior. Always. Absolutely. On stilts.

Etc, etc, etc.

This is the old boy game, a game that has been going on here for years. It consists of one axiom: always, absolutely, never ever. You can point our the inconsistency in such a view, but you're always returned to this point. The Muselman will always be backward and inferior because he has always been backward and inferior, and that's just the way it is.

But it isn't.

It is. The old boy said so.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from Reply #101 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 10:25am yup, bout sums it up... Now brace yourself while the old boy returns fire with a clever derogatory quip about limp wristed Paki homos. At which point he will have won the debate. On stilts.
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Soren

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #102 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 5:31pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 10:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 12:16am:

It's not relevant what you did 800 years ago, or only very marginally. What's relevant is what you are doing now. Now you are buggered thanks to your consistent efforts - but you want to be excused on the grounds that you were not buggered 800 years ago.

Ridiculous. I didn't live 800 years ago, nor you. By arguing with me you make it look as if you were buggered by me, for 800 years. But you have been buggered by yourselves for 800 long years.

You are just deflecting from your responsibility by arguing with me, the Jews, the Americans, everyone. But it is you who have buggered yourselves for the last 800 years.
What has happened for the last 800 years? And how will you - will you? - change whatever it was that made you bugger yourselves and everyone you have come into contact with for 800 years?

And don't look at me, it is YOUR culture and your responsibility. What are you doing about it?

(I am speaking French for the sake of brevity, you understand, not out of personal malice.)

Two points:

1. You brought it up first. *YOU* were the one claiming the muslims deserve no credit for the golden age. Relevant or not, I'm going to set the record straight when presented with such blatant untruths. Especially when your own evidence says what you claim is complete rubbish. Here's some advise, if you think something is irrelevant to the discussion, don't bring it up - and especially don't make claims about it that simply must be refuted.

2. I think it is important to acknowledge the achievements of the past as a way of addressing the problems of the present. Its proof that if it could be done before, it can be done again. It counters prevailing myths (held by both muslims and non-muslims) that work against the chances of a future revival - like the belief that islam is inherently against learning and exploring new ideas.

Yes - let's sum up the old boy's position, shall we?

- The Muselman is backward and inferior now because he's always been backward and inferior. Always. Absolutely. On stilts.
- Okay, so he mightn't have always been backward and inferior, but he is now, and that's the important thing.
- The Muselman bases his religion on lies. Of course he's backward and inferior. His whole worldview is based on a mirage.
- Yes, the old boy might have told a few porkies too, but it was the Muselman's fault. Lie with dogs and you get fleas, innit.
- The Muselman can't reform or mend his ways. It'll never happen. Never ever.
- Well, sure he's giving it a go now, but it'll never work. Islam and liberal democracy are incompatible.
- Okay, so it might work in some places, but look at Pakeestan.
- Mainstream Islam is essentially violent. Always. Absolutely. If they were keen on eradicating terrorism, they'd speak out against it. They never do this. Never ever.
- Oh yes, a few imams might come out to condemn protests and beheading signs, but why don't they stop it?
- Okay, so they might have stopped it on that one occasion, but why didn't they stop it before?
- Muslims cut and run. Instead of reforming their own societies and getting rid of their dictators, they move to the West. If they were so keen on democracy, they'd go back home and fight for it.
- Okay, so many do this, but they're not fighting for democracy, they're fighting for theocracy.
- Okay, so they might be fighting for democracy and not theocracy, but the theocrats will win every time.
- Okay, so the mullahs might not have won this time, but democracy will fail before long. It has to. Muslims want theocracies.
- Right, so they may not actually want theocracies, but they'll get them. Maybe not yet, but soon. Never ever, remember?
- Their backwardness and inferiority goes back to their history. They were always backward and inferior. Always. Absolutely.
- Okay, so they ruled civilization for a few hundred years while the West went through the Dark Ages. So what? It was an aberration. The Muselman is backward and inferior now because he's always been backward and inferior. Always. Absolutely. On stilts.

Etc, etc, etc.

This is the old boy game, a game that has been going on here for years. It consists of one axiom: always, absolutely, never ever. You can point our the inconsistency in such a view, but you're always returned to this point. The Muselman will always be backward and inferior because he has always been backward and inferior, and that's just the way it is.

But it isn't.

It is. The old boy said so.

Oh! of course!! I forgot!! Islam has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'.

It's the most amazingly ineffective and impotent religion in history. It has absolutely zero impact on the people and societies that follow it. Thanks for reminding me.

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freediver

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #103 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 8:19pm

Not quite right Soren. When Islam was conquering all and helping non-Muslims to live in prosperity (notwithstanding the occasional slaughter of course), then Islam was very effective. When it started to shrink and Islam imported rather than exported the violence and oppression, that was because people strayed from Islam. They have suffered for 800 years because they didn't do it properly.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver

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Re: Where the Israeil Jews really came from
Reply #104 - Jul 12^th, 2013 at 8:21pm

True Colours wrote on Jul 12^th, 2013 at 12:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:33pm:

From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

I suggest that you look for the documentary "how zionists expelled jews from iraq" on youtube. It explains how Israeli Mossad operatives bombed Iraqi Jewish in order to scare the Iraqi Jews into leaving Iraq. The Zionists were desperate to increase the Israeli population.

LOL, those scheming Jews really were to blame after all.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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