Australian Politics Forum - If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38788 Gender:	Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished Reply #30 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:57pm Quote: He has a double arts/law degree, So do I and I'd hardly call myself qualified as an economist, far from it in fact. Arts/Law degrees are like arseholes.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #31 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:57pm:

Quote:

He has a double arts/law degree,

So do I and I'd hardly call myself qualified as an economist, far from it in fact. Arts/Law degrees are like arseholes.

I done two of the courses involved in obtaining that degree and invite you to try. I bet you don't even know the difference between microeconomics and macroeconomics without searching Google...

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Karnal

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #32 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:04pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:24pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:15pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

skippy. wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

ROTFLMOA

the conga line are petrified. Too too funny. I have never seen such a shi t in the pants reaction in my entire life.

It's hysterical.

I knew they'd be scared, but this is something else.

Like you say, too too funny.

If anything, I'm bewildered. Why go back to Rudd? he was a miserable failure of a PM, an egotistical maniac and control freak who saw more staff leave his office than ever before. He failed once and will fail again. My question then is, who will Labor turn to once Abbott becomes PM in September (assuming that is still the election date)???

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wPtwjesbDbM/Tb8hjdpcrVI/AAAAAAAAALc/li1AgtrH9Ts/s1600/...

Lets look at Rudd's time as PM. He took a $22bn surplus and turned it into a debt in no time. He took an incredibly successful border security policy and instead laid out the welcome mat. He oversaw billions of dollars being wasted in ineffective and improperly administered stimulus policies that ultimately resulted in the deaths of four young men. He was a control freak with an ego the size of WA. He says he's changed his ways, yet from day one of Gillard's time as PM he has been working to undermine her. He hasn't changed and is as incompetent as ever.

I dont think Mr Kevin Rudd so looking for your vote..but I should tell you that deaths and injuries in the home insulation industry actually went down during the stimulus package which is pretty good when you consider how frantic it got with every man and his dog taking advantage of the offer.

I doubt very much the families of those four young men would find any solace whatsoever in your words.

And we all know the neo cons have a great record when it comes to industrial safety Cheesy

More died in that industry under Howards watch so why not complain about that?

Really? Of course, you have proof of that! Lets also not forget the numerous house fires that almost got more people killed due to dodgy insulation installers. That farce is one of the reasons why Garrett is without doubt the worst MP ever to have been given a cabinet position.

What you’re forgetting is that the home insulation scheme was one of Rudd’s babies. Garrett emailed Rudd’s office numerous times to warn him of the problems, and he was ignored. He couldn’t get a meeting. Garrett decided to keep his mouth shut and keep "cabinet solidarity".

And this is, no doubt, one reason Garrett has resigned. Rudd hasn’t changed. Like you, I can’t believe the popular support of a man who sabotaged his own government for three years. And that was when he was on the backbench.

Rudd was, by all accounts, the worst PM.we’ve ever had. He was overwealmingly voted out for his complete inertia, chaos and undermining ways. Labor put Gillard in, and things got done again. In government, she made things happen. She was bright, good natured, likeable and effective.

The fact that Rudd’s popularity surpasses Gillard’s is proof that democracy does not work. We do not get the leaders we deserve. 45 Labor MPs voted for Gillard for this very reason, and they knew that with her, they were sure to lose. Even those who backed Rudd - like Shorten - did so with very heavy hearts. They knew they were replacing a competant, trustworthy leader with a dud.

I don’t understand it either, but one thing is certain: we rarely hear the truth about these things, and we go for dumb, kneejerk impulses every time. The mindless hatred for JuLiar is one thing I’ve never understood, but look what it’s given us.

Rudd.

In moments of despair, I even wonder whether Abbott could be any worse.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #33 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:05pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:51pm:

Quote:

Costello is widely acknowledged here and abroad as a brilliant Treasurer, whereas Swan doesn't even have a degree to his name,

Can't recall Costello ever being formally recognised as the World's Best Treasurer as Swann truly was, and further let it be known that Costello has NIL formal economic qualifications.

You know as well as I do that it's pointless with armchair or Bambi. They are our tea party. They refuse to believe reality and instead have developed their own "facts".

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished Reply #34 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:05pm Oops..I just peed myself..there were no housefires under a Howard govt
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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25983 Gender:	Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished Reply #35 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:07pm adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:05pm: Oops..I just peed myself..there were no housefires under a Howard govt True, at least none caused by mismanagement of a government stimulus program.
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #36 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:13pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:04pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:24pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:15pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

skippy. wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

ROTFLMOA

the conga line are petrified. Too too funny. I have never seen such a shi t in the pants reaction in my entire life.

It's hysterical.

I knew they'd be scared, but this is something else.

Like you say, too too funny.

If anything, I'm bewildered. Why go back to Rudd? he was a miserable failure of a PM, an egotistical maniac and control freak who saw more staff leave his office than ever before. He failed once and will fail again. My question then is, who will Labor turn to once Abbott becomes PM in September (assuming that is still the election date)???

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wPtwjesbDbM/Tb8hjdpcrVI/AAAAAAAAALc/li1AgtrH9Ts/s1600/...

Lets look at Rudd's time as PM. He took a $22bn surplus and turned it into a debt in no time. He took an incredibly successful border security policy and instead laid out the welcome mat. He oversaw billions of dollars being wasted in ineffective and improperly administered stimulus policies that ultimately resulted in the deaths of four young men. He was a control freak with an ego the size of WA. He says he's changed his ways, yet from day one of Gillard's time as PM he has been working to undermine her. He hasn't changed and is as incompetent as ever.

I dont think Mr Kevin Rudd so looking for your vote..but I should tell you that deaths and injuries in the home insulation industry actually went down during the stimulus package which is pretty good when you consider how frantic it got with every man and his dog taking advantage of the offer.

I doubt very much the families of those four young men would find any solace whatsoever in your words.

And we all know the neo cons have a great record when it comes to industrial safety Cheesy

More died in that industry under Howards watch so why not complain about that?

Really? Of course, you have proof of that! Lets also not forget the numerous house fires that almost got more people killed due to dodgy insulation installers. That farce is one of the reasons why Garrett is without doubt the worst MP ever to have been given a cabinet position.

What you’re forgetting is that the home insulation scheme was one of Rudd’s babies. Garrett emailed Rudd’s office numerous times to warn him of the problems, and he was ignored. He couldn’t get a meeting. Garrett decided to keep his mouth shut and keep "cabinet solidarity".

And this is, no doubt, one reason Garrett has resigned. Rudd hasn’t changed. Like you, I can’t believe the popular support of a man who sabotaged his own government for three years. And that was when he was on the backbench.

Rudd was, by all accounts, the worst PM.we’ve ever had. He was overwealmingly voted out for his complete inertia, chaos and undermining ways. Labor put Gillard in, and things got done again. In government, she made things happen. She was bright, good natured, likeable and effective.

The fact that Rudd’s popularity surpasses Gillard’s is proof that democracy does not work. We do not get the leaders we deserve. 45 Labor MPs voted for Gillard for this very reason, and they knew that with her, they were sure to lose. Even those who backed Rudd - like Shorten - did so with very heavy hearts. They knew they were replacing a competant, trustworthy leader with a dud.

I don’t understand it either, but one thing is certain: we rarely hear the truth about these things, and we go for dumb, kneejerk impulses every time. The mindless hatred for JuLiar is one thing I’ve never understood, but look what it’s given us.

Rudd.

In moments of despair, I even wonder whether Abbott could be any worse.

Yes and no. Gillard got things through. But she couldn't sell. And she had morons like Conroy off the leash. Plus she was the one who legitimised xenophobia. A good politician is an leader. A person who can have a vision and have the electorate back that vision. Gillard has a vision, but she could never sell it. Tony of course has neither, just an ability to formulate slogans and jingles.

What makes me laugh tho is Rudd is like tony; no vision and no real selling abiligy. And yet they claim he is a better speaker then gillard? ... anyway, now that they are trying to sell that refugees are economic migrants I'm once again sleeping in on election day. What's wrong with our democracy is that populism has taken over realism and rational thought.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38788 Gender:	Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished Reply #37 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:17pm Quote: I done two of the courses involved in obtaining that degree and invite you to try. You did, 'done' you? I'm not surprised you reached the top of your personal Everest at 'two of the courses.'
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Karnal

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #38 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:50pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 5:04pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:24pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 4:15pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

skippy. wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

ROTFLMOA

the conga line are petrified. Too too funny. I have never seen such a shi t in the pants reaction in my entire life.

It's hysterical.

I knew they'd be scared, but this is something else.

Like you say, too too funny.

If anything, I'm bewildered. Why go back to Rudd? he was a miserable failure of a PM, an egotistical maniac and control freak who saw more staff leave his office than ever before. He failed once and will fail again. My question then is, who will Labor turn to once Abbott becomes PM in September (assuming that is still the election date)???

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wPtwjesbDbM/Tb8hjdpcrVI/AAAAAAAAALc/li1AgtrH9Ts/s1600/...

Lets look at Rudd's time as PM. He took a $22bn surplus and turned it into a debt in no time. He took an incredibly successful border security policy and instead laid out the welcome mat. He oversaw billions of dollars being wasted in ineffective and improperly administered stimulus policies that ultimately resulted in the deaths of four young men. He was a control freak with an ego the size of WA. He says he's changed his ways, yet from day one of Gillard's time as PM he has been working to undermine her. He hasn't changed and is as incompetent as ever.

I dont think Mr Kevin Rudd so looking for your vote..but I should tell you that deaths and injuries in the home insulation industry actually went down during the stimulus package which is pretty good when you consider how frantic it got with every man and his dog taking advantage of the offer.

I doubt very much the families of those four young men would find any solace whatsoever in your words.

And we all know the neo cons have a great record when it comes to industrial safety Cheesy

More died in that industry under Howards watch so why not complain about that?

Really? Of course, you have proof of that! Lets also not forget the numerous house fires that almost got more people killed due to dodgy insulation installers. That farce is one of the reasons why Garrett is without doubt the worst MP ever to have been given a cabinet position.

And this is, no doubt, one reason Garrett has resigned. Rudd hasn’t changed. Like you, I can’t believe the popular support of a man who sabotaged his own government for three years. And that was when he was on the backbench.

In moments of despair, I even wonder whether Abbott could be any worse.

Yes and no. Gillard got things through. But she couldn't sell. And she had morons like Conroy off the leash. Plus she was the one who legitimised xenophobia. A good politician is an leader. A person who can have a vision and have the electorate back that vision. Gillard has a vision, but she could never sell it. Tony of course has neither, just an ability to formulate slogans and jingles.

What makes me laugh tho is Rudd is like tony; no vision and no real selling abiligy. And yet they claim he is a better speaker then gillard? ... anyway, now that they are trying to sell that refugees are economic migrants I'm once again sleeping in on election day. What's wrong with our democracy is that populism has taken over realism and rational thought.

Ever see her on Q & A or People’s Parliament? She could sell. More importantly, she could communicate. She could write too. Gillard wrote newspaper columns on the carbon tax and the move to a low carbon economy. With education reform and the Asian Century white paper, Gillard had a narrative.

This is something Rudd never had - just a mishmash of complicated, unfinished policies. The paradox of the Gillard government is that those who sold its policies best were the independants, Oakshot and Windsor.

The reason Gillard didn’t sell is that, for reasons totally outside her control, no one was buying. The axing of Rudd and the carbon tax did it. If Gillard had taken the reigns under different circumstances, she may have been measured by what she actually said and did.

Gender wars? Class wars? This was Abbott and Creen’s interpretation of what amounted to nothing in policy terms. They were hardly the carefully calculated wedge politics of Howard’s "history wars" or boat policies.

Gillard even treated her worst critics with aplomb. See the way she handled Sattler’s question about her husband? She laughed it off as absurd.

That, I think, is what I like best about Gillard. She’s no princess. She has a black sense of humour and can laugh at herself.

Rudd, on the other hand...

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Aussie

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #39 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:00pm

This:

Quote:

no one was buying.

....is it in a nutshell, Mr Karnal. She was terrible at selling what was an excellent record and achievement on so many levels. To be successful as PM, you MUST be able to make a silk purse out of the sow's ear, and that is a fundamental quality Julia just did not have, and I reckon no amount of PR tuition would help her. She is not a salesman's bootlace. Rudd was the reverse, and let's hope he has been able to adapt like Julia was not able to adapt.

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red baron

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #40 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:10pm

Fear not Bambu...The Halo effect on Rudd will diminish to probably nothing in the next four weeks.

By that time good old micro managing and totally f....g up Kevin will be back in full stride.

Read into that that his total uselessness and policy on the run will come to the fore and people will suddenly realise why the Labor Party sh.t canned him first time around.

You see, some people look good, sound good until they get the baton of power, Kevin Rudd is one of these people. Then when they have the power, people soon realise they are as useless as tits on a tennis ball, read Kevin Rudd.

He will be found out and found wanting, back it in!

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95998 Gender:	Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished Reply #41 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:11pm Could Howard sell? Maybe it’s just me, but I found his interviews evasive and dull. Apparently Gillard does dazzling sales jobs on those she meets in person. This is the contrast everyone who’s met her talks about - the difference in perception between the public and private Gillard.
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Aussie

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #42 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:23pm

Karnal wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:11pm:

Could Howard sell? Maybe it’s just me, but I found his interviews evasive and dull.

Apparently Gillard does dazzling sales jobs on those she meets in person. This is the contrast everyone who’s met her talks about - the difference in perception between the public and private Gillard.

Hayseed cultivated his 'battlers' somehow, and they drooled at his every offering. Yeas, clearly Julia was an extremely successful private communicator (I give you Oakshot and Windsor) but 'perception' in the public domain is God. Shame she left politics, but she really had little choice if the ALP was ever going to move on from the 2010 'Ides of March.' Credit to her for recognising that as well.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #43 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:09pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

skippy. wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

ROTFLMOA

the conga line are petrified. Too too funny. I have never seen such a shi t in the pants reaction in my entire life.

It's hysterical.

I knew they'd be scared, but this is something else.

Like you say, too too funny.

If anything, I'm bewildered. Why go back to Rudd? he was a miserable failure of a PM, an egotistical maniac and control freak who saw more staff leave his office than ever before. He failed once and will fail again. My question then is, who will Labor turn to once Abbott becomes PM in September (assuming that is still the election date)???

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wPtwjesbDbM/Tb8hjdpcrVI/AAAAAAAAALc/li1AgtrH9Ts/s1600/...

Lets look at Rudd's time as PM. He took a $22bn surplus and turned it into a debt in no time. He took an incredibly successful border security policy and instead laid out the welcome mat. He oversaw billions of dollars being wasted in ineffective and improperly administered stimulus policies that ultimately resulted in the deaths of four young men. He was a control freak with an ego the size of WA. He says he's changed his ways, yet from day one of Gillard's time as PM he has been working to undermine her. He hasn't changed and is as incompetent as ever.

yes, rudd went from most popular pm to being dumped due to his fatal failings in record time.

A colossal failure of the alp.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: If Rudd-Labor is re-elected Australia is finished
Reply #44 - Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:30pm

"Kevin Rudd overtakes Tony Abbott as voters' choice for PM"

"According to an exclusive Galaxy poll, Mr Rudd is considered the better choice for prime minister by 51 per cent of voters compared with Tony Abbott's 34 per cent."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/special-features/kevin-rudd-overtakes-tony...

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