Australian Politics Forum - So which is it?

Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: So which is it? Reply #30 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:09pm Perhaps we should check with the 11 senior Labor members who quit what they think
Back to top	Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #31 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:10pm

Mnemonic wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 6:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:13pm:

Rudd's NPD has been obvious before he was a politician where everytime he worked in a govt department he was loathed pretty much in the same manner he is loathed now.

Being assertive or aggressive in one's career doesn't mean a person has NPD -- at least not "clinical" NPD. It's relatively normal for some people to be assertive, aggressive or "cut-throat" in their career. Laypeople like us may like playing with the term NPD, but I don't think it's the same as real NPD.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:13pm:

You only have the public image from the Rudd family that he isnt a narcisisitic individual at home which is unreliable. and narcisists are not necessarily violent and in most cases arent

NPD doesn't necessarily mean a person is physically violent. It doesn't mean you're a wife-beater. Based on what I have read, people with NPD just tend to be controlling in their most intimate relationships. In the outside, however, they appear normal.

Have a read of the comments of people who have worked with Rudd. HALF of his staff resigned. Everyone in cabinet who worked under him said the same thing. in the QLD PS he was known as Dr Death etc.... there is a pattern emerging and it isnt what you describe with is little more than a highly-focussed workaholic. Rudd BELIEVES he is labors messiah.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74939
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #32 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:45pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 6:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 6:10pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:14am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:02am:

Over the last few days, I have heard all the liberal monkeys on here and on television interviews, claiming that

1 - the labor caucus got rid of Rudd because he was dysfunctional, and they couldn't work with him

2 - in the same breath, they claim that Rudd was removed as PM because Abbott is some sort of master tactician, and they feared Rudd would lose the election .

So which is it? Was he removed because labor caucus couldn't work with him, or was he removed because they feared Abbott? You cannot have it both ways.

Once you've made up your mind, can you please use that excuse, and stop changing your stories with each post. It only makes you look desperate.

why is it so hard to beleive that it was BOTH??? Very few events in life have only one trigger.

Saying no to the ets was hardly a master tactic so much as the events that followed were pure luck for tony and reflect more on the instability within labor that was always there, just less visible until jan 2010.

after 4 years of defeating labor time and time again, it is perhaps time to ascribe some credit to Abbott.

name just once?

Rudd 2010
Gillard 2010-2013
etc

or does beating labor in the polls for 3 years not mean anything to you?

the polls?? the polls are nothing ... it's like calling the leader of a 30km marathon, at the 2 km stage, the winner .... the winner is determined at the finish line, in this case, election day ....

In both cases Abbott had his butt handed to him on a platter.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74939 Gender:	Re: So which is it? Reply #33 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:46pm Maqqa wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:09pm: Perhaps we should check with the 11 senior Labor members who quit what they think you do that..... until then, perhaps you should refrain from making untrue claims
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #34 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:14pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:59pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:57am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:12am:

Simple. Answer: both

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 11:14am:

why is it so hard to beleive that it was BOTH???

I think that's just a convenient excuse .... if caucus could have worked with Rudd, Abbotts numbers would have meant nothing, and Rudd would never have been removed.

Sort of blows your theory away

Rudd faced down Nelson and Turnbull and now Gillard.

Abbott faced down Turnbull, Rudd, Gillard (twice - 2010, 2013) and now it will be Rudd again.

yes, we all know the history lesson ... but did Rudd go because his colleagues couldn't work with him ,or because Abbott was a master tactician

I find it funny that the libs will with one comment criticise Rudd claiming his own colleagues couldn't work with him and that was why he was removed, and then with the very next breath claim that it was because Abbott is so brilliant. Unless Abbott was passing fake memo's and emails between Rudd and his staff, I don't see what Abbott had to do with it.

Kevni was sh!t but was plenty good enough against Turnbull.

Against Abbott, no fvckn chance so they kneecapped him. They installed Gillard because and they thought the laydy was good enough against Tone and would save the day. And she did by swaying the independents with principled statesmanship, sorry, money.

But then she got buggered good and proper, to coin a phrase, and they realised that she was a no-goer after all and had no chance against Abbott (not Turnbull) - and so Kevni is back with the fervent hope that there are millions of people suffering short-term memory loss like you.

Kevni is the David Brent of the ALP. And they richly deserve him.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:24pm by Soren »

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: So which is it?
Reply #35 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:26pm

Rudd was and is immensely popular with the electorate, just not with the people who he had to work with probably because he is a narcissistic control freak. However, this doesnt make him a crap PM or a crap person in general. They installed Julia because they thiought she was the great female hope of the Labor party and because they failed to understand that the election has become nothing more than a US style popularity contest. Julia is the opposite of Rudd, unpopular with the electorate but gets on well with her colleagues. Labor party power brokers now , belatedly understand what it is going to take to win the next election. And Julia is not it. Nice person, but

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #36 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:43pm

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:26pm:

Rudd was and is immensely popular with the electorate, just not with the people who he had to work with probably because he is a narcissistic control freak. However, this doesnt make him a crap PM or a crap person in general. They installed Julia because they thiought she was the great female hope of the Labor party and because they failed to understand that the election has become nothing more than a US style popularity contest. Julia is the opposite of Rudd, unpopular with the electorate but gets on well with her colleagues. Labor party power brokers now , belatedly understand what it is going to take to win the next election. And Julia is not it. Nice person, but

They got rid of Kevni because he was NOT immensely popular and his electoral chances were diminishing by the week before everyone's eyes to the extent that even the great female hope could manage only a hung parliament and a minority government.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38821
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #37 - Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:47pm

Soren wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:43pm:

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:26pm:

Rudd was and is immensely popular with the electorate, just not with the people who he had to work with probably because he is a narcissistic control freak. However, this doesnt make him a crap PM or a crap person in general. They installed Julia because they thiought she was the great female hope of the Labor party and because they failed to understand that the election has become nothing more than a US style popularity contest. Julia is the opposite of Rudd, unpopular with the electorate but gets on well with her colleagues. Labor party power brokers now , belatedly understand what it is going to take to win the next election. And Julia is not it. Nice person, but

They got rid of Kevni because he was NOT immensely popular and his electoral chances were diminishing by the week before everyone's eyes to the extent that even the great female hope could manage only a hung parliament and a minority government.

Better than what Abbott achieved and what's more, despite all the doomsayers, the 43rd Parliament went full term.

Gillard did very well, and history will say so.

Back to top

IP Logged

Armchair_Politician

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 26143
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #38 - Jul 3^rd, 2013 at 7:25am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 7:10pm:

Mnemonic wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 6:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:13pm:

Rudd's NPD has been obvious before he was a politician where everytime he worked in a govt department he was loathed pretty much in the same manner he is loathed now.

Being assertive or aggressive in one's career doesn't mean a person has NPD -- at least not "clinical" NPD. It's relatively normal for some people to be assertive, aggressive or "cut-throat" in their career. Laypeople like us may like playing with the term NPD, but I don't think it's the same as real NPD.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 5:13pm:

You only have the public image from the Rudd family that he isnt a narcisisitic individual at home which is unreliable. and narcisists are not necessarily violent and in most cases arent

NPD doesn't necessarily mean a person is physically violent. It doesn't mean you're a wife-beater. Based on what I have read, people with NPD just tend to be controlling in their most intimate relationships. In the outside, however, they appear normal.

Have a read of the comments of people who have worked with Rudd. HALF of his staff resigned. Everyone in cabinet who worked under him said the same thing. in the QLD PS he was known as Dr Death etc.... there is a pattern emerging and it isnt what you describe with is little more than a highly-focussed workaholic. Rudd BELIEVES he is labors messiah.

Not just Labor's messiah - the country's as well. At least, in his own little mind...

Back to top

IP Logged

Armchair_Politician

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 26143
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #39 - Jul 3^rd, 2013 at 7:26am

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:47pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:43pm:

ian wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2013 at 10:26pm:

Rudd was and is immensely popular with the electorate, just not with the people who he had to work with probably because he is a narcissistic control freak. However, this doesnt make him a crap PM or a crap person in general. They installed Julia because they thiought she was the great female hope of the Labor party and because they failed to understand that the election has become nothing more than a US style popularity contest. Julia is the opposite of Rudd, unpopular with the electorate but gets on well with her colleagues. Labor party power brokers now , belatedly understand what it is going to take to win the next election. And Julia is not it. Nice person, but

They got rid of Kevni because he was NOT immensely popular and his electoral chances were diminishing by the week before everyone's eyes to the extent that even the great female hope could manage only a hung parliament and a minority government.

Better than what Abbott achieved and what's more, despite all the doomsayers, the 43rd Parliament went full term.

Gillard did very well, and history will say so.

Nice re-writing of history there... Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

red baron

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 10204
Blue Mountains
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #40 - Jul 3^rd, 2013 at 8:01am

With a thank you to Sprint Cyclist I reprint his post here for the benefit of John Smith, apparently he didn't read the thread on Rudd's Ministers.

“The stories that were around of the chaos, of the temperament, of the inability to have decisions made – they are not stories”.
(Tony Burke, 22 February 2012)

Rudd’s new Youth Minister, Kate Ellis, said of him:

“Kevin Rudd is the person who has been talking down the Prime Minister (Gillard) in deeply personal ways for well over a year, during the last election campaign and since then”.
(Kate Ellis, 24 February 2012)

Defence Minister Stephen Smith said:

“If you wanted one sentence why the Cabinet and the Caucus and the party moved away from Kevin, it was because it became increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to work difficult issues through with him”.
(Stephen Smith, 23 February 2012)

And most extraordinarily, the person who Rudd asked to preside over our nation’s critical mining industry, Resources Minister Gary Gray, had this to say only ten days ago:

“He (Rudd) doesn't have the courage and the strength that's required to do this job. What he can do is spread confusion. What he can do is get himself into the media. What he can do is create a lot of torment. What he can't do is govern and what he can't do is lead the Labor Party”.

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74939
Gender: male

Re: So which is it?
Reply #41 - Jul 3^rd, 2013 at 9:46am

red baron wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2013 at 8:01am:

With a thank you to Sprint Cyclist I reprint his post here for the benefit of John Smith, apparently he didn't read the thread on Rudd's Ministers.

“The stories that were around of the chaos, of the temperament, of the inability to have decisions made – they are not stories”.
(Tony Burke, 22 February 2012)

Rudd’s new Youth Minister, Kate Ellis, said of him:

“Kevin Rudd is the person who has been talking down the Prime Minister (Gillard) in deeply personal ways for well over a year, during the last election campaign and since then”.
(Kate Ellis, 24 February 2012)

Defence Minister Stephen Smith said:

“If you wanted one sentence why the Cabinet and the Caucus and the party moved away from Kevin, it was because it became increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to work difficult issues through with him”.
(Stephen Smith, 23 February 2012)

And most extraordinarily, the person who Rudd asked to preside over our nation’s critical mining industry, Resources Minister Gary Gray, had this to say only ten days ago:

“He (Rudd) doesn't have the courage and the strength that's required to do this job. What he can do is spread confusion. What he can do is get himself into the media. What he can do is create a lot of torment. What he can't do is govern and what he can't do is lead the Labor Party”.

Apparently Red struggles to understand a very simple question

I know the people working for him didn't like him, and I agree that is the most likely the reason why they got rid of him.

My belief is that is the only reason and not because of some great strategy from Abbott. They would have gotten rid of him whether the lib leader was Abbott, Turnbull, Bishop or Hockey.

The liberal monkeys on here like to claim that it was because of some great strategy by Abbott, my argument is that Abbott just happened to be there, and they would have gotten rid of Rudd regardless of who was leader of the libs. Nothing at all to do with Abbotts politics

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged