Quote:And what does that even mean? Its a meaningless slogan that seeks to remove any historical context and simplify the situation into a silly 'good vs evil' dichotomy.
We are three pages in to a thread you started on collective punishment. Perhaps you should have mentioned earlier that you don't know what it means.
Quote:But of course your entire approach to this topic is to reduce everything to simplistic, emotional slogans.
It is a pretty simple topic. I say it is collective punishment because the collective was being punished for the actions of a few. You say it is not collective punishment because those scheming Jews had it coming.
Quote:You start with a rather lengthy paragraph in which not a single sentence misses a comparison with the nazis
It's surprising how easy it is to make such comparisons. The examples set by Muhammed, including collective punishment, set in motion a train of events that finally lead to the Arabs booting out the few remaining Jews 1400 years later, the trying to wipe them out.
Quote:Now you claim that your only argument was to point out that it is 'collective punishment'. I wouldn't neccessarily disagree with that - though I disagree that it conforms to the modern meaning of the word: I reject that the women and children were punished ('enslavement' = protective custody)
The ones in the tribe who were booted out following the disrobing incident were collectively punished, along with the others who were moved on in Muhammed's ethnic cleansing program. Sexual slavery is kind of a different topic to collective punishment, and I agree that it does not make sense to characterise it as collective punishment as that is not the itnention of sexual slavery.
Quote:Either way, why this whole rant about the nazis? Does mention of 'collective punishment' (however you want to define it) necessarily require mentioning the nazis - as if any collective punishment throughout history is comparable to what the nazis did? Of course not - and thats why people who do this are subject to such ridicule as an invoker of 'Godwin's Law'.
It is the focus on blaming the Jews that leads inevitably to comparisons with the Nazis. The Jews seem to have copped the worst from the Muslims under Muhammed - and ever since. Also, booting out the Jews shortly after the holocaust then declaring another war on them is obviously going to attract comparisons with the Nazis.
Quote:Based on what? Everything we know about the prophet indicates that he saw the jews as natural allies. What evidence is there that Muhammad killed or persecuted jews for religious reasons - as opposed to punishing those (jews or otherwise) who conspired with his enemies to annihilate the muslim community? Anything??
Being an ally and persecuting them are not mutually exclusive. Combining them leads to the sort of mixed messages and contradictions that define Islam. Muhammed persecuted everyone who did not join his religion - Jews, Christians, Pagans etc. He started by booting all of them out under his program of ethnic cleansing. Did I mention how Muhammed was a bit like Hitler? It Hitler had succeeded in establishing his 1000 year Reich, in a thousand years we would have Nazis offering the same excuses for Hitler's actions that we see Muslims offering for Muhammed's actions.
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Where the "collective punishment" meme comes from (Read 39988 times)
