Australian Politics Forum - Indonesian Q&A

ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Indonesian Q&A Reply #180 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:28pm They can locate them, they just dont want to. Therin lies the rub, they have no incentive to do so. We either deal with this fact and get a solution to the problem or ignore it for no solution.
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Soren

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #181 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:49pm

They have no incentive to follow their own laws and rules and it's not our job to incentivise them - there's the rub.

We treat them as if they were a real country, with real laws, with a real purpose and degree of seriousness. But they are not a real country in the proper sense, not a real jurisdiction, not a real partner. They are trading on their thirdy-worldy handicap opportunistically.

Wither they are a real country, equal to us, in which case they should stop being so corrupt and pretend-helpless - or they should admit that corruption and pretence is the reality, in which case we should not treat them as a real country but as a bunch of corrupt wannabes.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Indonesian Q&A Reply #182 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 12:03am Senseless babble. I presume you have been drinking.
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #183 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #184 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:09am

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:49pm:

They have no incentive to follow their own laws and rules and it's not our job to incentivise them - there's the rub.

We treat them as if they were a real country, with real laws, with a real purpose and degree of seriousness. But they are not a real country in the proper sense, not a real jurisdiction, not a real partner. They are trading on their thirdy-worldy handicap opportunistically.

Wither they are a real country, equal to us, in which case they should stop being so corrupt and pretend-helpless - or they should admit that corruption and pretence is the reality, in which case we should not treat them as a real country but as a bunch of corrupt wannabes.

They also have 150 ships in their navy which is far larger than our own, and not one of those are based in the south.
Now why is that I wonder.
Their fleet remains anchored in the north.
They are corrupt and always have been so.
And they clearly show that people smuggling out of their country is not a problem for them.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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bambu

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #185 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:14am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:09am:

Soren wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:49pm:

They have no incentive to follow their own laws and rules and it's not our job to incentivise them - there's the rub.

We treat them as if they were a real country, with real laws, with a real purpose and degree of seriousness. But they are not a real country in the proper sense, not a real jurisdiction, not a real partner. They are trading on their thirdy-worldy handicap opportunistically.

Wither they are a real country, equal to us, in which case they should stop being so corrupt and pretend-helpless - or they should admit that corruption and pretence is the reality, in which case we should not treat them as a real country but as a bunch of corrupt wannabes.

They also have 150 ships in their navy which is far larger than our own,

#####

And we keep giving them $500million+ every 52 weeks...total lunacy.

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Kat

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #186 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well then, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #187 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:26am

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

Next plane out to ?????, Greeniesville.
No identities remember.
And no, Tony is not going to do that, or install any failed policy for that matter.
He'll leave that to Labor.
The Coalition's policy will DETER smugglers, not attract them.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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bambu

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #188 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:27am

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well then, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

As Howard and co found out, we can't send people back to countries that won't accept them or will execute them if they do.

The solution is offshore processing, towing boats back, temp protect visas, no family reunions, stricter criteria etc

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Kat

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #189 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:34am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

Next plane out to ?????, Greeniesville.
No identities remember.
And no, Tony is not going to do that, or install any failed policy for that matter.
He'll leave that to Labor.
The Coalition's policy will DETER smugglers, not attract them.

How can it be 'failed' when it was never tried?

THAT was what the electorate wanted done when they demanded that Howard close his Concentration Camps.

But Con-alition xenophobia prevailed, and we've been getting it DEAD WRONG ever since.

The Far Right are xenophobic maggots.

And Abbott is the worst of the lot.

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Postmodern Trendoid

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #190 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:40am

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:34am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

Next plane out to ?????, Greeniesville.
No identities remember.
And no, Tony is not going to do that, or install any failed policy for that matter.
He'll leave that to Labor.
The Coalition's policy will DETER smugglers, not attract them.

How can it be 'failed' when it was never tried?

THAT was what the electorate wanted done when they demanded that Howard close his Concentration Camps.

But Con-alition xenophobia prevailed, and we've been getting it DEAD WRONG ever since.

The Far Right are xenophobic maggots.

And Abbott is the worst of the lot.

How about we send them all to you and your fellow bleeding hearts houses, and you can pay for their upkeep? Let me guess, you want someone else to pay for it all while you sit in your armchair "feeling" good" about your idealistic morality.

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Only the boat people can save us from our own evil.

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Kat

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #191 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:43am

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:40am:

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:34am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

Next plane out to ?????, Greeniesville.
No identities remember.
And no, Tony is not going to do that, or install any failed policy for that matter.
He'll leave that to Labor.
The Coalition's policy will DETER smugglers, not attract them.

How can it be 'failed' when it was never tried?

THAT was what the electorate wanted done when they demanded that Howard close his Concentration Camps.

But Con-alition xenophobia prevailed, and we've been getting it DEAD WRONG ever since.

The Far Right are xenophobic maggots.

And Abbott is the worst of the lot.

How about we send them all to you and your fellow bleeding hearts houses, and you can pay for their upkeep? Let me guess, you want someone else to pay for it all while you sit in your armchair "feeling" good" about your idealistic morality.

How about we send you and your ilk over there on a one-for-one swap.

We'd be the winners...

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Postmodern Trendoid

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #192 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:45am

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:43am:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:40am:

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:34am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

Kat wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

muso wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

What virtually every poster is missing is the motivation of the Indonesians in all of this. Their motivation is moolah, pure and simple. I've been to plenty of poor countries, and it's always the same. The Indonesians are very cunning when it comes to money. Even with the disaster in Aceh, the only thing that the poor people ended up with was packet noodles. The aid money is still going round and round in government circles.

So Kev says to Sosilo, "We don't want to offend you guys and take unilateral action. So chill. We'll help you out (**money***) with patrol boats.

Sosilo's translator says "This guy will give you money if you say that unilateral action is not acceptable. Oh - the money is for patrol boats by the way"

Sosilo smiles broadly and thinks "Sucker - he's giving us money"

Kev goes back to Australia "See - the Indonesians agree with us"

Of course Abbott can't very easily state the bleeding obvious, because it would offend the Indonesians.

Kev 1 Tony 0

Abbott will do what needs to be done AFTER he is elected, and not before.
So your Kev 1 Tony 0 is meaningless.

Abbott will NEVER do what needs to be done.

And that, is onshore processing and community-detention.

24/7 GPS ankle-bracelet monitoring.

Maximum 3 months to process.

Failures on the next plane out.

Is Tony going to do that?

No?

Well, fuggim, and his xenophobe supporters.

Next plane out to ?????, Greeniesville.
No identities remember.
And no, Tony is not going to do that, or install any failed policy for that matter.
He'll leave that to Labor.
The Coalition's policy will DETER smugglers, not attract them.

How can it be 'failed' when it was never tried?

THAT was what the electorate wanted done when they demanded that Howard close his Concentration Camps.

But Con-alition xenophobia prevailed, and we've been getting it DEAD WRONG ever since.

The Far Right are xenophobic maggots.

And Abbott is the worst of the lot.

How about we send them all to you and your fellow bleeding hearts houses, and you can pay for their upkeep? Let me guess, you want someone else to pay for it all while you sit in your armchair "feeling" good" about your idealistic morality.

How about we send you and your ilk over there on a one-for-one swap.

We'd be the winners...

I didn't think you'd want to do any hands-on approach. It's best to sit back and sprout 'feel good' platitudes isn't.

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Only the boat people can save us from our own evil.

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John Smith

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #193 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:48am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:09am:

They also have 150 ships in their navy which is far larger than our own, and not one of those are based in the south.Now why is that I wonder.Their fleet remains anchored in the north

maybe because they don't consider Australia, a country of just over 20 million, a threat. On the other hand to the north they have to worry about Malaysia, China, Japan, Philippines .... where would you have your navy positioned if you were in charge of Indonesia's defence??

By the way, the boats supplied by Australia are being used up North to try and stem the flow of asylum seekers from Malaysia

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Kat

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Re: Indonesian Q&A
Reply #194 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:56am

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:45am: