Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)

longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #105 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:28pm ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:20pm: Theres 2800 in WA who we know are guilty beyond any doubt we can start with those. start what exactly?
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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #106 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:46pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

and thus ends your brief relationship with credibility. 74 studies and you reject all of them because... you disagree with them. And yet you support the totally repudiated notion of the DP reducing crime because Japan has had a drop in crime in the last 10 years after 50 years of increasing crime.. Trouble is, the DP was present for the entire 60 years.

1. I disagree with them, because the only evidence that they are valid is your word that they are and it's not like you would lie to support your own biased argment.

2. I did not say that, in fact I only posted the japanese data to prove that you were full of sh1t with your notion of absolutes. You find data that leads you to believe that only you have the absolute truth and within a short time I find data the disagrees with your absolutes. Not so cut and dried now is it?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #107 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:37pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

The evidecne is on Wikipedia, its not debatable.

OK. I literally laughed out load at that one.

Grin

It was a goodie... Nationmaster and Wikipedia as impeccable sources. It doesnt get more ludicrous than that. But the Singapore Law Society's articles on Singaporean law are worthless according to ian-the-fool.

And he just keeps getting better.

e.g. the post right above yours:

"Theres 2800 in WA who we know are guilty beyond any doubt we can start with those."

He's the gift that keeps giving.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #108 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

and thus ends your brief relationship with credibility. 74 studies and you reject all of them because... you disagree with them. And yet you support the totally repudiated notion of the DP reducing crime because Japan has had a drop in crime in the last 10 years after 50 years of increasing crime.. Trouble is, the DP was present for the entire 60 years.

1. I disagree with them, because the only evidence that they are valid is your word that they are and it's not like you would lie to support your own biased argment.

2. I did not say that, in fact I only posted the japanese data to prove that you were full of sh1t with your notion of absolutes. You find data that leads you to believe that only you have the absolute truth and within a short time I find data the disagrees with your absolutes. Not so cut and dried now is it?

how exactly does your data disprove mine? Japan had an INCREASING crime rate for 50 years and then a decreasing rate. All during this time there was the death penalty. Hardly evidence to support your notion!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #109 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

The evidecne is on Wikipedia, its not debatable.

OK. I literally laughed out load at that one.

Grin

It was a goodie... Nationmaster and Wikipedia as impeccable sources. It doesnt get more ludicrous than that. But the Singapore Law Society's articles on Singaporean law are worthless according to ian-the-fool.

And he just keeps getting better.

e.g. the post right above yours:

"Theres 2800 in WA who we know are guilty beyond any doubt we can start with those."

He's the gift that keeps giving.

but guilty of what??? as anyone with a modicum of sense and experience would tell you, ever offence type has an enormous range within it. Assault can be anything from touching someone to beating them senseless with a bat.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #110 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:50pm The death penalty is still drawing a crowd at Brazil's soccer tournaments. Red Card!.
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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #111 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:57pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:50pm: The death penalty is still drawing a crowd at Brazil's soccer tournaments. Red Card!. possibly the least relevant post on this thread.
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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #112 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

but guilty of what??? as anyone with a modicum of sense and experience would tell you, ever offence type has an enormous range within it. Assault can be anything from touching someone to beating them senseless with a bat.

If you bothered to read the article Mastermind, you would see they are all guilty of child sexual abuse. Theres no range within that particular crime that would qualify any intelligent person to support lesser penalties. But lets hear your argument, Im sure you have something prepared.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #113 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

The evidecne is on Wikipedia, its not debatable.

OK. I literally laughed out load at that one.

Grin

It was a goodie... Nationmaster and Wikipedia as impeccable sources. It doesnt get more ludicrous than that. But the Singapore Law Society's articles on Singaporean law are worthless according to ian-the-fool.

And he just keeps getting better.

e.g. the post right above yours:

"Theres 2800 in WA who we know are guilty beyond any doubt we can start with those."

He's the gift that keeps giving.

You going to argue against their guilt? They have all been convicted of child sexual abuse, many of multiple offences, they are all being monitored by the law because of their convictions and we have a respected psychologist in the field stating they are all dangerous and likely to reoffend. What exactly arent you gertting here? Personally i think you are stuck on Longliars pro pedophile arguments. Thats the problem when you continue to attasck the poster instead of the argument, you just dont realise how deeper you are sinking into defending these people. Yiour original tack was anti DP, now you are pro pedophile.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #114 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:49pm

Interesting observation about thsi thread and the previous one; Not one anti DP poster has actually condemned in any way the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned. All guilty of the most horrendous crimes possible but not one iota of condemnation form the anti DP brigade. I think thats quite telling.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 137482 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #115 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm: You going to argue against their guilt? No: I don't know if they are guilty or not. I know they've been convicted. However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive. No surprise though.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #116 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:56pm

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

Interesting observation about thsi thread and the previous one; Not one anti DP poster has actually condemned in any way the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned. All guilty of the most horrendous crimes possible but not one iota of condemnation form the anti DP brigade. I think thats quite telling.

Well, that's completely wrong.

However, seeing as you missed it:

I completely condemn "the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned".

I condemn all criminals. They get no sympathy from me.

I also condemn using premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment.

Condemning capital punishment doesn't equate to condoning criminal behaviour.

Of course, your tiny mind would have great difficulty grasping that simple concept.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #117 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:59pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

You going to argue against their guilt?

No: I don't know if they are guilty or not.

I know they've been convicted.

However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive.

No surprise though.

No, its not mate, anyone who works in the justice system knows how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for child abuse. So difficult that the majority go free or many never even get charged. The reason is that most of these crimes go unreported for decades, The evidence has to be incontrovertible to secure a conviction. You are the naive one. I dont mean that in a negative way as an insult, the majority of the public dont understand it either.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #118 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 3:01pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:56pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

Interesting observation about thsi thread and the previous one; Not one anti DP poster has actually condemned in any way the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned. All guilty of the most horrendous crimes possible but not one iota of condemnation form the anti DP brigade. I think thats quite telling.

Well, that's completely wrong.

However, seeing as you missed it:

I completely condemn "the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned".

I condemn all criminals. They get no sympathy from me.

I also condemn using premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment.

Condemning capital punishment doesn't equate to condoning criminal behaviour.

Of course, your tiny mind would have great difficulty grasping that simple concept.

And yet here you are arging the innocence of convicted criminals. Yes, Greggary, convicted means they are guilty. Its a legal concept you obviously have difficulty understanding.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #119 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 3:09pm

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 3:01pm:

And yet here you are arging the innocence of convicted criminals. Yes, Greggary, convicted means they are guilty. Its a legal concept you obviously have difficulty understanding.

Once again ian, I am not arguing that they are innocent.

I am saying that we can not say for sure that all of them "are guilty beyond any doubt".

Yes, convicted means they were found guilty, however, it doesn't necessarily mean that they actually committed the crime.

Are you suggesting that there has never been a case of an innocent person being convicted and found guilty of a crime?

Come on ian, put some more thought into it please.

I'm not defending any criminals: I'm just saying that we can never be 100% certain that every convicted criminal actually did the crime they were found guilty of.

The world isn't perfect ian.

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