Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #135 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 7:03pm

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 6:58pm:

Its not my way, its the way the law works. Jurors or judges should not convict if there is any doubt which they find reasonable. Long standing often misunderstood legal principle. Some people seem to think it means that there can be a doubt and still have a conviction. That is incorrect.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38703 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #136 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 7:03pm flip
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38703 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #137 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 7:03pm flip 2
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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #138 - Jul 7^th, 2013 at 7:08pm I like Jimmy cliff but Im surprised he hasnt died of lung cancer by now.
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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #139 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:40am

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

but guilty of what??? as anyone with a modicum of sense and experience would tell you, ever offence type has an enormous range within it. Assault can be anything from touching someone to beating them senseless with a bat.

If you bothered to read the article Mastermind, you would see they are all guilty of child sexual abuse. Theres no range within that particular crime that would qualify any intelligent person to support lesser penalties. But lets hear your argument, Im sure you have something prepared.

as stated, most are actually downloaders of illegal material. Im not supporting or justifying it but your presumption that there is not a wide wide range of child abuse offences demonstrates your lack of information. just as with ALL offences there are is a very wide range of severity of the offence.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #140 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:41am

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

The evidecne is on Wikipedia, its not debatable.

OK. I literally laughed out load at that one.

Grin

It was a goodie... Nationmaster and Wikipedia as impeccable sources. It doesnt get more ludicrous than that. But the Singapore Law Society's articles on Singaporean law are worthless according to ian-the-fool.

And he just keeps getting better.

e.g. the post right above yours:

"Theres 2800 in WA who we know are guilty beyond any doubt we can start with those."

He's the gift that keeps giving.

You going to argue against their guilt? They have all been convicted of child sexual abuse, many of multiple offences, they are all being monitored by the law because of their convictions and we have a respected psychologist in the field stating they are all dangerous and likely to reoffend. What exactly arent you gertting here? Personally i think you are stuck on Longliars pro pedophile arguments. Thats the problem when you continue to attasck the poster instead of the argument, you just dont realise how deeper you are sinking into defending these people. Yiour original tack was anti DP, now you are pro pedophile.

care to show proof of the highlighted statement?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #141 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:42am

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

Interesting observation about thsi thread and the previous one; Not one anti DP poster has actually condemned in any way the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned. All guilty of the most horrendous crimes possible but not one iota of condemnation form the anti DP brigade. I think thats quite telling.

a simplistic and typically ignorant post

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #142 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:44am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:41am: care to show proof of the highlighted statement? Its all in the link I provided. I would expect seeing as you claim you posess such great research skills that you would be able to click on a link.
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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #143 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:45am

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

You going to argue against their guilt?

No: I don't know if they are guilty or not.

I know they've been convicted.

However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive.

No surprise though.

No, its not mate, anyone who works in the justice system knows how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for child abuse. So difficult that the majority go free or many never even get charged. The reason is that most of these crimes go unreported for decades, The evidence has to be incontrovertible to secure a conviction. You are the naive one. I dont mean that in a negative way as an insult, the majority of the public dont understand it either.

you mean like Lindy Chamberlain or the host of other wrongly convicted people? a lot are convicted purely on circumstantial evidence which is by definition NOT incontrovertible.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #144 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:42am:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

Interesting observation about thsi thread and the previous one; Not one anti DP poster has actually condemned in any way the murders, rapists or pedophiles mentioned. All guilty of the most horrendous crimes possible but not one iota of condemnation form the anti DP brigade. I think thats quite telling.

a simplistic and typically ignorant post

And you are prominent for not conndemning these people but instead attempting to argue for their rights.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #145 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

You going to argue against their guilt?

No: I don't know if they are guilty or not.

I know they've been convicted.

However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive.

No surprise though.

No, its not mate, anyone who works in the justice system knows how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for child abuse. So difficult that the majority go free or many never even get charged. The reason is that most of these crimes go unreported for decades, The evidence has to be incontrovertible to secure a conviction. You are the naive one. I dont mean that in a negative way as an insult, the majority of the public dont understand it either.

you mean like Lindy Chamberlain or the host of other wrongly convicted people? a lot are convicted purely on circumstantial evidence which is by definition NOT incontrovertible.

Lindy Chamberlain was not convicted of child abuse. Name one wrongly convicted.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #146 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:48am

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 5:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

and thus ends your brief relationship with credibility. 74 studies and you reject all of them because... you disagree with them. And yet you support the totally repudiated notion of the DP reducing crime because Japan has had a drop in crime in the last 10 years after 50 years of increasing crime.. Trouble is, the DP was present for the entire 60 years.

1. I disagree with them, because the only evidence that they are valid is your word that they are and it's not like you would lie to support your own biased argument.

2. I did not say that, in fact I only posted the japanese data to prove that you were full of sh1t with your notion of absolutes. You find data that leads you to believe that only you have the absolute truth and within a short time I find data the disagrees with your absolutes. Not so cut and dried now is it?

how exactly does your data disprove mine? Japan had an INCREASING crime rate for 50 years and then a decreasing rate. All during this time there was the death penalty. Hardly evidence to support your notion!

Your stats disproves yours, hardly valid when we have only your word that it exists and it is rock solid.

Mine was only there to show that your supposed rock solid evidence that the DP always increases serious crime was a load of horse sh1t. Like you say, in japan it went up and then it went down; maybe there is a correlation, but in all likelihood there is not.

Many things influence crime, the DP can hardly be singled out as the sole influence of criminal behaviour, be it here, the US or japan. Anyone with a modicum of intellect could see that.

so in short, you are saying that the DP was not affecting crime in Japan - which was my point.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #147 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:50am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

as stated, most are actually downloaders of illegal material. Im not supporting or justifying it but your presumption that there is not a wide wide range of child abuse offences demonstrates your lack of information. just as with ALL offences there are is a very wide range of severity of the offence.

Such circumstances the downloader would not be charged with child abuse. Not having a good day are you?

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #148 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:50am

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 6:58pm:

Its not my way, its the way the law works. Jurors or judges should not convict if there is any doubt which they find reasonable. Long standing often misunderstood legal principle. Some people seem to think it means that there can be a doubt and still have a conviction. That is incorrect.

are you SOB??? you are unbelievably stupid in trying to understand what most people would understand rather easily. you apparently dont believe that there has ever been a wrongly convicted person.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #149 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:56am

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:44am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

care to show proof of the highlighted statement?

Its all in the link I provided. I would expect seeing as you claim you posess such great research skills that you would be able to click on a link.

it said 800 out of 2800 were considered risky (therefore the rest are NOT considered risky) and 170 of those considered genuninly risky. You should try actually reading.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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