Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)

longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #150 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:59am

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

You going to argue against their guilt?

No: I don't know if they are guilty or not.

I know they've been convicted.

However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive.

No surprise though.

No, its not mate, anyone who works in the justice system knows how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for child abuse. So difficult that the majority go free or many never even get charged. The reason is that most of these crimes go unreported for decades, The evidence has to be incontrovertible to secure a conviction. You are the naive one. I dont mean that in a negative way as an insult, the majority of the public dont understand it either.

you mean like Lindy Chamberlain or the host of other wrongly convicted people? a lot are convicted purely on circumstantial evidence which is by definition NOT incontrovertible.

Lindy Chamberlain was not convicted of child abuse. Name one wrongly convicted.

a woman was convicted of 27 counts of child sexual abuse and spent 5 years in prison until released after it was discovered ha the evidence was manufactured and the frequency of the abuse was literally not possible.

and that's just one.

your belief that there has never been a wrongly convicted sex offender is curious if not outright idiotic.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #151 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:00am

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

as stated, most are actually downloaders of illegal material. Im not supporting or justifying it but your presumption that there is not a wide wide range of child abuse offences demonstrates your lack of information. just as with ALL offences there are is a very wide range of severity of the offence.

Such circumstances the downloader would not be charged with child abuse. Not having a good day are you?

they go on the sex offenders register which is what the article refers to. That is why most aren't considered a risk to children because they never actually offended against actual children.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #152 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:01am bump
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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #153 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:03am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:00am:

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

as stated, most are actually downloaders of illegal material. Im not supporting or justifying it but your presumption that there is not a wide wide range of child abuse offences demonstrates your lack of information. just as with ALL offences there are is a very wide range of severity of the offence.

Such circumstances the downloader would not be charged with child abuse. Not having a good day are you?

they go on the sex offenders register which is what the article refers to. That is why most aren't considered a risk to children because they never actually offended against actual children.

Incorrect, the article states they are all considered a risk to children.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #154 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:04am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:59am:

vc
a woman was convicted of 27 counts of child sexual abuse and spent 5 years in prison until released after it was discovered ha the evidence was manufactured and the frequency of the abuse was literally not possible.

and that's just one.

your belief that there has never been a wrongly convicted sex offender is curious if not outright idiotic.

Who? Show this example. Who was this woman and where and when was she convicted. Habeus corpus. Anyway. Im going to work. I will be back to demolish your nonsense later after making a large amount of money for actually knowing something.

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it_is_the_light Gold Member Offline Christ Light Posts: 41434 The Pyramid of LIGHT Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #155 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:07am i observe weekender again accusing abusing others and blaming that which is exterior for his pain and suffering. ..forgiven. an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind ..fear not all is well brother being be at peace namaste - : )
Back to top	ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯ IP Logged

longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #156 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:09am

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:03am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:00am:

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

as stated, most are actually downloaders of illegal material. Im not supporting or justifying it but your presumption that there is not a wide wide range of child abuse offences demonstrates your lack of information. just as with ALL offences there are is a very wide range of severity of the offence.

Such circumstances the downloader would not be charged with child abuse. Not having a good day are you?

they go on the sex offenders register which is what the article refers to. That is why most aren't considered a risk to children because they never actually offended against actual children.

Incorrect, the article states they are all considered a risk to children.

where is your shrink saying that all 2800 will re-offend? They didn't. You are extrapolating and exaggerating all of this.

and what is your suggestion? Are you seriously suggesting that all 2800 should be executed?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #157 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:09am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:48am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 5:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

and thus ends your brief relationship with credibility. 74 studies and you reject all of them because... you disagree with them. And yet you support the totally repudiated notion of the DP reducing crime because Japan has had a drop in crime in the last 10 years after 50 years of increasing crime.. Trouble is, the DP was present for the entire 60 years.

1. I disagree with them, because the only evidence that they are valid is your word that they are and it's not like you would lie to support your own biased argument.

2. I did not say that, in fact I only posted the japanese data to prove that you were full of sh1t with your notion of absolutes. You find data that leads you to believe that only you have the absolute truth and within a short time I find data the disagrees with your absolutes. Not so cut and dried now is it?

how exactly does your data disprove mine? Japan had an INCREASING crime rate for 50 years and then a decreasing rate. All during this time there was the death penalty. Hardly evidence to support your notion!

Your stats disproves yours, hardly valid when we have only your word that it exists and it is rock solid.

Mine was only there to show that your supposed rock solid evidence that the DP always increases serious crime was a load of horse sh1t. Like you say, in japan it went up and then it went down; maybe there is a correlation, but in all likelihood there is not.

Many things influence crime, the DP can hardly be singled out as the sole influence of criminal behaviour, be it here, the US or japan. Anyone with a modicum of intellect could see that.

so in short, you are saying that the DP was not affecting crime in Japan - which was my point.

Odd, first you state emphatically the the DP DOES affect serious crime rates negatively. I show that in japan there is a positive effect and thus call you 'expert' studies bullsh1t (all 74 of them).

I stated and will continue to state that the studies are total horsesh1t and that that one can't say one way or the other how the DP affects community criminal behavior; it does affect the person being executed but. So there is that.

So to recap, anyone can find horsesh1t studies on the internet to bolster their own biased view, you supposedly found 74 to say what you want them to say, and I quickly found one to say the opposite.

Good thing that at least you believe that the DP has no deleterious affect on serious crime in one country but not in the rest of the world; but still believe your 74 fraudulent studies, because you are now so committed to your lie you can't say otherwise.

It has been fun ripping apart your argument, so thanks for that.

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« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:32am by BigOl64 »

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #158 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:10am

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:59am:

vc
a woman was convicted of 27 counts of child sexual abuse and spent 5 years in prison until released after it was discovered ha the evidence was manufactured and the frequency of the abuse was literally not possible.

and that's just one.

your belief that there has never been a wrongly convicted sex offender is curious if not outright idiotic.

Who? Show this example. Who was this woman and where and when was she convicted. Habeus corpus. Anyway. Im going to work. I will be back to demolish your nonsense later after making a large amount of money for actually knowing something.

don't bother tosser. there is no point in debating with a fool who actually doesn't believe in wrongful convictions. Enjoy your hamburget -tossing job.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #159 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:16am

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:09am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:48am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 5:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

and thus ends your brief relationship with credibility. 74 studies and you reject all of them because... you disagree with them. And yet you support the totally repudiated notion of the DP reducing crime because Japan has had a drop in crime in the last 10 years after 50 years of increasing crime.. Trouble is, the DP was present for the entire 60 years.

1. I disagree with them, because the only evidence that they are valid is your word that they are and it's not like you would lie to support your own biased argument.

2. I did not say that, in fact I only posted the japanese data to prove that you were full of sh1t with your notion of absolutes. You find data that leads you to believe that only you have the absolute truth and within a short time I find data the disagrees with your absolutes. Not so cut and dried now is it?

how exactly does your data disprove mine? Japan had an INCREASING crime rate for 50 years and then a decreasing rate. All during this time there was the death penalty. Hardly evidence to support your notion!

Your stats disproves yours, hardly valid when we have only your word that it exists and it is rock solid.

Mine was only there to show that your supposed rock solid evidence that the DP always increases serious crime was a load of horse sh1t. Like you say, in japan it went up and then it went down; maybe there is a correlation, but in all likelihood there is not.

Many things influence crime, the DP can hardly be singled out as the sole influence of criminal behaviour, be it here, the US or japan. Anyone with a modicum of intellect could see that.

so in short, you are saying that the DP was not affecting crime in Japan - which was my point.

Odd, first you state emphatically the the DP DOES affect serious crime rates negatively. I show that in japan there is a positive effect and thus call you 'expert' studies bullsh1t (all 74 of them).

I stated and will continue to state that the studies are total horsesh1t and that that one can't say one way or the other how the DP affects community behavioral; it does affect the person being executed but. So there is that.

So to recap, anyone can find horsesh1t studies on the internet to bolster their own biased view, you supposedly found 74 to say what you want them to say, and I quickly found one to say the opposite.

Good thing that at least you believe that the DP has no deleterious affect on serious crime in one country but not in the rest of the world; but still believe your 74 fraudulent studies, because you are now so committed to your lie you can't say otherwise.

It has been fun ripping apart your argument, so thanks for that.

why do you think anyone should take you seriously when, like a typical non-thinking bogan, you simply dismiss all the evidence you don't like. One or other of us could easily refer you to each and every one of these studies but like Ian, why would anyone bother. You have already stated that you will not accept any evidence that is contrary to your opinion which implies that the worth of your posts is nil. The very best you could say about the Japanese experience is that the DP has had absolutely no effect either way. But feel free to maintain your belief in the face of over whelming evidence to the contrary.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #160 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:21pm bump
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Aussie

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #161 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 2:51pm

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

You going to argue against their guilt?

No: I don't know if they are guilty or not.

I know they've been convicted.

However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive.

No surprise though.

No, its not mate, anyone who works in the justice system knows how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for child abuse. So difficult that the majority go free or many never even get charged. The reason is that most of these crimes go unreported for decades, The evidence has to be incontrovertible to secure a conviction. You are the naive one. I dont mean that in a negative way as an insult, the majority of the public dont understand it either.

you mean like Lindy Chamberlain or the host of other wrongly convicted people? a lot are convicted purely on circumstantial evidence which is by definition NOT incontrovertible.

Lindy Chamberlain was not convicted of child abuse. Name one wrongly convicted.

The murder of a baby is not abuse of that baby?

Huh

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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #162 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

why do you think anyone should take you seriously when, like a typical non-thinking bogan, you simply dismiss all the evidence you don't like. One or other of us could easily refer you to each and every one of these studies but like Ian, why would anyone bother. You have already stated that you will not accept any evidence that is contrary to your opinion which implies that the worth of your posts is nil. The very best you could say about the Japanese experience is that the DP has had absolutely no effect either way. But feel free to maintain your belief in the face of over whelming evidence to the contrary.

You know you have never actually present ANY evidence to back up your claim, something I actually did, with little effort

You feel the need to tell outrageous lies to support your feeble stance. I have NEVER stated that " will not accept any evidence that is contrary to your opinion". I have stated I would never take your word for the validity of your supposed studies or the fact they prve your argument

The best thing about the japanese evidence is that 1. it exists and was presented to you for review and 2. it destroys your primary argument that the DP increases serious crime. In the long run it actually decrease serious crime, as you yourself have stated on more than one post.

So finally you not only have not provided "overwhelming evidence" but you have failed to provide ANY evidence. Any evidence that you could provide could not be considered valid or even remotely scientific, so I can see why you would want to hide it and refer to it in the abstract.

But relying on personal abuse is what passes for effort in your world then so be it. Grin

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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #163 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:15pm

Whlle we're at it longy, since you don't intend to give access to your 'evidence'

Any chance you could explain how these learned people managed to identify the DP as the single causal factor in the increase in serious crime?

I mean to state that there are no other factors in the cause of this crime wave, is a big call, so they must have done some serious research.

Or as I suspect they just looked at 2 columns of numbers and yelled "eureka". Grin

It's just while I was studying stats at Uni, to isolate a single causal factor to a scientifically valid certainty was no easy task, especially when there are multiple potential causal factors and combinations of factors.

Education
Poverty
Mental health programs
Post incarceration rehabilitation

I'm sure there are many other factors that determine serious crime rates, but when you can blame a single factor without any real scientific study; it must be very fulfilling. Grin

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Bobby.

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #164 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:16pm

Dear BigOl,
give up on Longweekend,
I have proven him wrong countless times on Ozpolitics & Yahoo in the past.
He will never apologise even when the proof is outstanding & incontrovertible.

He stubbornly sticks to his point of view & when you've really got him
he just disappears from the thread.

He should be banned.

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