Australian Politics Forum - The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)

longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #165 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:32pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

You going to argue against their guilt?

No: I don't know if they are guilty or not.

I know they've been convicted.

However, to say they "are guilty beyond any doubt" is remarkably naive.

No surprise though.

No, its not mate, anyone who works in the justice system knows how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for child abuse. So difficult that the majority go free or many never even get charged. The reason is that most of these crimes go unreported for decades, The evidence has to be incontrovertible to secure a conviction. You are the naive one. I dont mean that in a negative way as an insult, the majority of the public dont understand it either.

you mean like Lindy Chamberlain or the host of other wrongly convicted people? a lot are convicted purely on circumstantial evidence which is by definition NOT incontrovertible.

Lindy Chamberlain was not convicted of child abuse. Name one wrongly convicted.

The murder of a baby is not abuse of that baby?

Huh

It was a curious distinction, to say the least.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #166 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Dear BigOl,
give up on Longweekend,
I have proven him wrong countless times on Ozpolitics & Yahoo in the past.
He will never apologise even when the proof is outstanding & incontrovertible.

He stubbornly sticks to his point of view & when you've really got him
he just disappears from the thread.

He should be banned.

Actually, you have NEVER proven Longy wrong..

That being said, he IS wrong on this subject..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #167 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:34pm .
Back to top	"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition. It's similar to a strawman fallacy" Bobbythebat IP Logged

Bobby.

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #168 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:47pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Dear BigOl,
give up on Longweekend,
I have proven him wrong countless times on Ozpolitics & Yahoo in the past.
He will never apologise even when the proof is outstanding & incontrovertible.

He stubbornly sticks to his point of view & when you've really got him
he just disappears from the thread.

He should be banned.

Actually, you have NEVER proven Longy wrong..

That being said, he IS wrong on this subject..

Longweekend has been proven wrong many times.
Just look at my thread here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1356646946/45

He claimed that he never used a sock puppet in the same thread.

The evidence clearly showed him using Gold_medal & Longweekend in the same thread.

I proved him wrong - caught red handed - but where is his apology?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #169 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 4:13pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:47pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Dear BigOl,
give up on Longweekend,
I have proven him wrong countless times on Ozpolitics & Yahoo in the past.
He will never apologise even when the proof is outstanding & incontrovertible.

He stubbornly sticks to his point of view & when you've really got him
he just disappears from the thread.

He should be banned.

Actually, you have NEVER proven Longy wrong..

That being said, he IS wrong on this subject..

Longweekend has been proven wrong many times.
Just look at my thread here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1356646946/45

He claimed that he never used a sock puppet in the same thread.

The evidence clearly showed him using Gold_medal & Longweekend in the same thread.

I proved him wrong - caught red handed - but where is his apology?

Well if you want to be pedantic (and pathetic)....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #170 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:05pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 4:13pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:47pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Dear BigOl,
give up on Longweekend,
I have proven him wrong countless times on Ozpolitics & Yahoo in the past.
He will never apologise even when the proof is outstanding & incontrovertible.

He stubbornly sticks to his point of view & when you've really got him
he just disappears from the thread.

He should be banned.

Actually, you have NEVER proven Longy wrong..

That being said, he IS wrong on this subject..

Longweekend has been proven wrong many times.
Just look at my thread here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1356646946/45

He claimed that he never used a sock puppet in the same thread.

The evidence clearly showed him using Gold_medal & Longweekend in the same thread.

I proved him wrong - caught red handed - but where is his apology?

Well if you want to be pedantic (and pathetic)....

it was the time when I changed IDs and so apparently I was posted under both in the same thread. that hardly makes it being a sock which is something different.

But it is curious how the death penalty proponents give little too no regard to the problem of executing the innocent. It is as if they don't really care. Wrongful convictions just don't seem to be a part of their agenda.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #171 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:34pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:09am:

where is your shrink saying that all 2800 will re-offend? They didn't. You are extrapolating and exaggerating all of this.

and what is your suggestion? Are you seriously suggesting that all 2800 should be executed?

Let me post the article in its entirety for others with english comprehension ability. They all rate from high to low risk, i.e. all are at risk of reoffending, otherwise there would be no need to monitor them. A phsyce report is compiled tendered in court to evaluate thier risk level. 18 of the offenders have reoffended so far this year, how is this acceptable? Now. show me your innocent child abuser who you just conveniently manufactured. i.e. lied about.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/thousands-of-sex-offenders-in-wa-and-800-classed-as-high-risk/story-fnhocxo3-1226675300190
THERE are 800 child sex offenders in WA who police fear are at a high risk of reoffending.

The sex-offender management squad is monitoring 2849 reportable offenders who pose a risk to children.

Of those, 170 are considered dangerous enough to be labelled a "very high" risk of hurting children again and must report to police at least once a month.

Another 630 are considered a "high" risk and have to check in once every three months.

Another 1694 offenders are considered a "medium" or "low" risk and only report to police once or twice a year.

WA Police said the risk ratings were based on a "comprehensive risk matrix assessment" that considered whether the offender was likely to commit further crimes, the seriousness of their previous offences and operational logistics.

Police also revealed that 18 of the offenders on the database had reoffended already this year. Last year, 34 offenders on the list reoffended.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #172 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:37pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

The murder of a baby is not abuse of that baby?

Huh

Oddly enough, and I know you will find this an amazing fact, people who murder babies are charged with murder. I know you find this incredibly amazing, I know when I found out myself that people actually get charged with the actual crime they are accused of committing, I was astounded. Incredible idiosyncrasy of the law , eh? Tell all your friends.

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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #173 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:10am:

don't bother tosser. there is no point in debating with a fool who actually doesn't believe in wrongful convictions. Enjoy your hamburget -tossing job.

The only thing Im tossing is your arguements out the window. Im still getting a laugh over you claiming to be an expert. Its obvious you have never been in a courtroom in your life, like Greggary.

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BigOl64

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #174 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:44pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:05pm:

But it is curious how the death penalty proponents give little too no regard to the problem of executing the innocent. It is as if they don't really care. Wrongful convictions just don't seem to be a part of their agenda.

Thought I covered that with some detail, recommending that those that commit multiple murders, violent rapes and child rapes

The chance of your personal evidence being at multiple crime scenes and victims and also innocent would be so unbelievably remote as to be impossible without direct police interference And if a copper deliberately falsified evidence, then a murder charge would ensue. It would be less so the state killing an innocent person but a cop murdering an innocent person.

So it isn't that dificult to ensure innocent people are not 'accidently' knocked off their perch.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2) Reply #175 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:45pm it_is_the_light wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:07am: i observe weekender again accusing abusing others and blaming that which is exterior for his pain and suffering. - : ) Yes. Thats pretty much how i have him pegged also. Lot of projecting going on, I reckon hes supressing something.
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ian

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #176 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:50pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:05pm:

But it is curious how the death penalty proponents give little too no regard to the problem of executing the innocent. It is as if they don't really care. Wrongful convictions just don't seem to be a part of their agenda.

What wrongful convictions? Yoiu had to go back 80 years to find someone who was possibly innocent and executed (according to one claim only). Its also a fact that the burden of proof in a courtroom is considerably higher with charges like murder. You seem to have the idea that as regards burder of proof there is zero difference in a courtroom between a parking fine and a charge of murder. This is the problem when you get all your information from american tv shows.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #177 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:07pm

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:45pm:

it_is_the_light wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:07am:

i observe weekender again

accusing abusing others and blaming that

which is exterior for his pain and suffering.

- : )

Yes. Thats pretty much how i have him pegged also. Lot of projecting going on, I reckon hes supressing something.

abuse at the hands of the clergy Wink

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #178 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:21pm

ian wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:10am:

don't bother tosser. there is no point in debating with a fool who actually doesn't believe in wrongful convictions. Enjoy your hamburget -tossing job.

The only thing Im tossing is your arguements out the window. Im still getting a laugh over you claiming to be an expert. Its obvious you have never been in a courtroom in your life, like Greggary.

it rather obvious that you haven't, that's for sure. You interpretations of facts are ludicrous. and once again I ask you what your solution to re-offending criminals. and let's not just talk about child sex offenders. Let's bring everyone into the mix. But it sounds a lot like you propose execution used on a while lot of people as a preventative to reoffending rather than a punishment for actual crimes.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd (pt 2)
Reply #179 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:25pm

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 5:05pm:

But it is curious how the death penalty proponents give little too no regard to the problem of executing the innocent. It is as if they don't really care. Wrongful convictions just don't seem to be a part of their agenda.

Thought I covered that with some detail, recommending that those that commit multiple murders, violent rapes and child rapes

The chance of your personal evidence being at multiple crime scenes and victims and also innocent would be so unbelievably remote as to be impossible without direct police interference And if a copper deliberately falsified evidence, then a murder charge would ensue. It would be less so the state killing an innocent person but a cop murdering an innocent person.

So it isn't that dificult to ensure innocent people are not 'accidently' knocked off their perch.

changing the criteria to multiple/serial offenders does reduce the risk but does not eliminate it. Innocents have been executed on numerous occasions.

It would not be unfair to observe that you have SOME concern about innocent executions but not enough to make you modify your view at all. And once the DP was enacted there is little chance it would remain only aimed at repeat offenders.

Life without parole has the same effect in terms of protection so why not promote that?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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