Australian Politics Forum - Rudd crashing through.

MOTR

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Rudd crashing through.
Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm

A letter from Kevin.

I have just made an announcement that will change the way Labor leaders are elected.

On July 22 there will be a special caucus meeting where I will propose:

The Leader of the Australian Labor Party is elected by a 50/50 split vote by Labor branch members and the Federal Labor caucus;

There are three triggers to change the leader: a leader’s resignation, a federal election loss or a 75 per cent vote of no confidence by the Federal Labor caucus; and

The Federal Labor caucus will decide the members of the Ministry or Shadow Ministry, not the Leader.

These changes are necessary to ensure stability in Labor’s leadership and promote unity.

We’re on the verge of a historic change for our Party – click here to join today.

I hope you support me in these changes to make Labor a more open, democratic Party.

Thanks,

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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #1 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:00pm Kinda hypocritical don't you think? Although it will settle some of the unrest for the future to come.
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Grendel

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #2 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:04pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm:

A letter from Kevin.

I have just made an announcement that will change the way Labor leaders are elected.

On July 22 there will be a special caucus meeting where I will propose:

The Leader of the Australian Labor Party is elected by a 50/50 split vote by Labor branch members and the Federal Labor caucus;

There are three triggers to change the leader: a leader’s resignation, a federal election loss or a 75 per cent vote of no confidence by the Federal Labor caucus; and

The Federal Labor caucus will decide the members of the Ministry or Shadow Ministry, not the Leader.

These changes are necessary to ensure stability in Labor’s leadership and promote unity.

We’re on the verge of a historic change for our Party – click here to join today.

I hope you support me in these changes to make Labor a more open, democratic Party.

Thanks,

With kevin, as we all know... it's all about Kevin.
he's just trying to shore up his position into the future.

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Aussie

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #3 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:33pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm:

A letter from Kevin.

I have just made an announcement that will change the way Labor leaders are elected.

On July 22 there will be a special caucus meeting where I will propose:

The Leader of the Australian Labor Party is elected by a 50/50 split vote by Labor branch members and the Federal Labor caucus;

There are three triggers to change the leader: a leader’s resignation, a federal election loss or a 75 per cent vote of no confidence by the Federal Labor caucus; and

The Federal Labor caucus will decide the members of the Ministry or Shadow Ministry, not the Leader.

These changes are necessary to ensure stability in Labor’s leadership and promote unity.

We’re on the verge of a historic change for our Party – click here to join today.

I hope you support me in these changes to make Labor a more open, democratic Party.

Thanks,

With kevin, as we all know... it's all about Kevin.
he's just trying to shore up his position into the future.

Yes, it also occurred to me that Rudd is making it hard to dislodge him. But then, when you look at it, there are two parts to his proposal.

1. The circumstance when a Leader will vacate.
2. How a new Leader is elected.

As for 1:

Nothing surprising that a resignation or an electoral defeat would be a trigger. Makes sense. A 75% caucus petition support......that's new.

But, really, in effect, any Leader who waited for 75% to sign up knowing that there was say, 60% would be causing damage. For example, Gillard called the spill not (publicly) knowing what the numbers actually were on the alleged Petition to oust her.

2. This is very new, and Rudd will successfully sell it given his position of strength right now. In this regard I say that Rudd is taking advantage of his current powerful position to bring in a change he might have less chance with in other circumstances. He is saying to the ALP......"Well, You and I both know that without me right now, you are phucked. If you want me to run this campaign, you will accept that Caucus no longer has sole control over leadership....after there has been a spill trigger. (See Item 1.) ALP general membership will have equal say."

Rudd is taking ruthless advantage of his current grip on the Party.

But:

What is so wrong with what he proposes? Yes, it shores up his present position, but that comes with the territory of making change.

The LNP claim to be making political gains by pointing out the lack of stability in recent ALP leadership. These proposals address exactly that.

The LNP often refer to 'faceless me' controlling leadership. These proposals also address that by giving general Party membership an equal say with Caucus.

So, yes, Grendel, Rudd benefits......but apart from that, what say ye about the concepts?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74619 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #4 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:46pm Labor needs to do something to prevent the shemozzle of the last 3 years replaying at some point in the future. Good on him for trying.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58611 Here Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #5 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38759 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #6 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm: I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far. Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'
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Dale Ftard Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #7 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:02pm They will have plenty of time to adopt reforms and play pass the parcel full of taxpayer money when they are in opposition That they are going through these ructions as the incumbent is a terrible look.
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skippy.

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #8 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

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Neferti

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #9 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:11pm

I, for one, sincerely hope that Kevni comes a huge cropper and loses, dramatically. He is so full of himself. He promised that he would not challenge Gillard only a week before he did. What a bloody liar he is. It is ALL about Kevni ... he is a legend in his own mind. What a grubby little sucker! Hope he falls flat on his pudgy face and gets his hair out of wack! Grin

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Dnarever

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #10 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:21pm

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

It should be difficult to change leaders but not impossible. In the situation we had where Gillard was going to be destroyed in the election the option to change to a leader with a chance needs to be available. Locking in stupidity is not the best idea.

Making it more difficult to oust an elected leader is a good Idea involving the rank and file in some way is also positive, making it virtually impossible is going too far.

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skippy.

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #11 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:26pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

It should be difficult to change leaders but not impossible. In the situation we had where Gillard was going to be destroyed in the election the option to change to a leader with a chance needs to be available. Locking in stupidity is not the best idea.

Making it more difficult to oust an elected leader is a good Idea involving the rank and file in some way is also positive, making it virtually impossible is going too far.

I don't think he's making it impossible. If this was current ALP policy I reckons the rank and file would have opted to oust Gillard given even The likes of Shorton and Wong admitted they were doomed under Gillard.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74619 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #12 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 9:17pm the only thing that needs to change is that representatives for any area should be chosen by the rank and file in that area .... if that had happened they wouldn't have owed their loyalty to either Rudd or Gillard and none of this would have happened in the first place.
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Grendel

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #13 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:04pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm:

A letter from Kevin.

I have just made an announcement that will change the way Labor leaders are elected.

On July 22 there will be a special caucus meeting where I will propose:

The Leader of the Australian Labor Party is elected by a 50/50 split vote by Labor branch members and the Federal Labor caucus;

There are three triggers to change the leader: a leader’s resignation, a federal election loss or a 75 per cent vote of no confidence by the Federal Labor caucus; and

The Federal Labor caucus will decide the members of the Ministry or Shadow Ministry, not the Leader.

These changes are necessary to ensure stability in Labor’s leadership and promote unity.

We’re on the verge of a historic change for our Party – click here to join today.

I hope you support me in these changes to make Labor a more open, democratic Party.

Thanks,

With kevin, as we all know... it's all about Kevin.
he's just trying to shore up his position into the future.

Yes, it also occurred to me that Rudd is making it hard to dislodge him. But then, when you look at it, there are two parts to his proposal.

1. The circumstance when a Leader will vacate.
2. How a new Leader is elected.

As for 1:

Nothing surprising that a resignation or an electoral defeat would be a trigger. Makes sense. A 75% caucus petition support......that's new.

But, really, in effect, any Leader who waited for 75% to sign up knowing that there was say, 60% would be causing damage. For example, Gillard called the spill not (publicly) knowing what the numbers actually were on the alleged Petition to oust her.

2. This is very new, and Rudd will successfully sell it given his position of strength right now. In this regard I say that Rudd is taking advantage of his current powerful position to bring in a change he might have less chance with in other circumstances. He is saying to the ALP......"Well, You and I both know that without me right now, you are phucked. If you want me to run this campaign, you will accept that Caucus no longer has sole control over leadership....after there has been a spill trigger. (See Item 1.) ALP general membership will have equal say."

Rudd is taking ruthless advantage of his current grip on the Party.

But:

What is so wrong with what he proposes? Yes, it shores up his present position, but that comes with the territory of making change.

The LNP claim to be making political gains by pointing out the lack of stability in recent ALP leadership. These proposals address exactly that.

The LNP often refer to 'faceless me' controlling leadership. These proposals also address that by giving general Party membership an equal say with Caucus.

So, yes, Grendel, Rudd benefits......but apart from that, what say ye about the concepts?

There is but one concept... Kevin keeping Kevin in.

As for the future of it in the ALP... it will be changed again.

I think the Dems used to have a membership ballot. They did a lot of things right. That's why I used to vote for them.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #14 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:25pm Great idea. Makes joining a political party worthwhile.
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Poll
Question: Is this a positive development.
Yes 12 (52.2%) No 11 (47.8%) Total votes: 23 « Created by: MOTR on: Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm »