Australian Politics Forum - Rudd crashing through.

Dnarever

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #15 - Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:19pm

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:26pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

It should be difficult to change leaders but not impossible. In the situation we had where Gillard was going to be destroyed in the election the option to change to a leader with a chance needs to be available. Locking in stupidity is not the best idea.

Making it more difficult to oust an elected leader is a good Idea involving the rank and file in some way is also positive, making it virtually impossible is going too far.

I don't think he's making it impossible. If this was current ALP policy I reckons the rank and file would have opted to oust Gillard given even The likes of Shorton and Wong admitted they were doomed under Gillard.

They would almost never get 75% unless corruption or something drastic was involved.

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MOTR

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #16 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:59am

John Smith wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

the only thing that needs to change is that representatives for any area should be chosen by the rank and file in that area .... if that had happened they wouldn't have owed their loyalty to either Rudd or Gillard and none of this would have happened in the first place.

Perhaps this will be the next reform.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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MOTR

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #17 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:01am

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:26pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

It should be difficult to change leaders but not impossible. In the situation we had where Gillard was going to be destroyed in the election the option to change to a leader with a chance needs to be available. Locking in stupidity is not the best idea.

Making it more difficult to oust an elected leader is a good Idea involving the rank and file in some way is also positive, making it virtually impossible is going too far.

I don't think he's making it impossible. If this was current ALP policy I reckons the rank and file would have opted to oust Gillard given even The likes of Shorton and Wong admitted they were doomed under Gillard.

But where is the trigger mechanism for the rank and file?

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #18 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:04am Isn't this also about breaking down the power of the unions within the Labor party?
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MOTR

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #19 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:12am

Quote:

ALP members would have a say in the election of the party leader, under party reforms proposed by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

Mr Rudd said he was proposing the leader of the party be jointly elected by party members and the caucus.

Announcing the plan in Canberra late on Monday, Mr Rudd said the reform was important to ensure a "vibrant, modern" party in the future.

''I believe it will encourage people to re-engage in the political process and to bring back those supporters who have become disillusioned," he said.

Under the proposal, half the votes would come from the party membership, with the other half given to members of the parliamentary party. Any candidate for the leadership would need the initial backing of 20 per cent of caucus members.

''Today, more than ever, Australians demand to know that the Prime Minister they elect, is the Prime Minister they get,'' Mr Rudd said.

Mr Rudd will seek approval for the change, which he described as ''the most significant reform of the Australian Labor Party in recent history'', at a special meeting of the caucus on July 22.
Mr Rudd said if caucus rejected his proposals he would seek a special rules conference to make the changes.

''They will ensure that power will never again rest in the hands of the factional few,'' he said.
Mr Rudd said the change would provide "long-term stability of the party leadership''.

Mr Rudd is also proposing another change that would prevent the removal of a leader mid-term if Labor formed government.

''If a leader of the Australian Labor Party takes the party to the election and they are returned to form the government of the nation, that person remains as leader of the party and the government for the duration of that term,'' Mr Rudd said.

He said this would prevent anyone walking in with a challenge and saying to the leader: ''Ok sunshine, it's over.''

He said the quality of decision-making would be eroded if leaders had to ''look over their shoulders'' all the time if there were bad polls.

But he said an election for the leader could be called after the resignation of the leader, at the request of the leader, or if 75 per cent of caucus members signed a petition calling for an election ''on the grounds that the current leader has brought the party into disrepute''.

He said an election for leader would automatically occur following an election loss.

Mr Rudd said grassroots members would not play a part in the election of the deputy leader, Senate leader and deputy Senate leader. Only members of the parliamentary party would elect these positions.

Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who was with Mr Rudd for the announcement, said the proposals represented ''the most significant empowerment of our membership in our history''.
The proposed changes come only days after Mr Rudd revealed a raft of other party reforms, aimed at stamping out corruption.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-members-to-have-say-...

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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John Smith

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #20 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 9:24am

MOTR wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 7:59am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

the only thing that needs to change is that representatives for any area should be chosen by the rank and file in that area .... if that had happened they wouldn't have owed their loyalty to either Rudd or Gillard and none of this would have happened in the first place.

Perhaps this will be the next reform.

small steps

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58621 Here Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #21 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:15pm I would be surprised if this isn't defeated. Much too ambitious without enough thought and too much down side.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #22 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:59pm

Lest We forget..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acX-1bc-agY

I think it is a move under pressure from the Republican movement.....a slight edging towards Republican democracy....as well as a future protective measure to preclude a repetition of The Gillard Coup (sponsored by the Labor Right wing and brought to you at a parliament near you to make a 'statement' using a token woman)....

On that basis there is more to it than first meets the eye - it is a strike against that Right wing and the money-changers in the Temple.. I think it is a positive step to return pre-selection to the hands of the Branch members.

Will put a lot of Party favourites out of a job, though...... and would have terminated Julia's seat anyway..... unless she could persuade the members to keep her....

Hasta La Vista..... BABY! Roll Eyes

ADDS:- thank god it's over now:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXfP2763gYo

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« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2013 at 9:13pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Aussie

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #23 - Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:44pm

The Unions are fighting back a tad on Rudd's initiative. I'll bet Rudd will win this for a very simple reason. When they have their meeting to decide the matter, if there is a real crunch he will invoke the very reason he is doing this now.....his position of absolute strength. He will say, "Adopt this (or some refinement I am happy with) or I will resign and you lot can be slaughtered at the coming Poll."

The bloke knows when he has muscle and when to use it. Now is the time. He'd be wasting his time after the election no matter what the outcome was.

Now is the moment, and he will not let it pass.

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MOTR

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #24 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 6:46am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

It should be difficult to change leaders but not impossible. In the situation we had where Gillard was going to be destroyed in the election the option to change to a leader with a chance needs to be available. Locking in stupidity is not the best idea.

Making it more difficult to oust an elected leader is a good Idea involving the rank and file in some way is also positive, making it virtually impossible is going too far.

I'm in favour of the changes, though I'm sure I haven't looked at if from every angle. However, I'm concerned that the trigger which requires 75 per cent of caucus members to support a leadership spill, is far too high. I'd be much happier with 66 per cent.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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MOTR

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #25 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 6:47am

Aussie wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:44pm:

The Unions are fighting back a tad on Rudd's initiative. I'll bet Rudd will win this for a very simple reason. When they have their meeting to decide the matter, if there is a real crunch he will invoke the very reason he is doing this now.....his position of absolute strength. He will say, "Adopt this (or some refinement I am happy with) or I will resign and you lot can be slaughtered at the coming Poll."

The bloke knows when he has muscle and when to use it. Now is the time. He'd be wasting his time after the election no matter what the outcome was.

Now is the moment, and he will not let it pass.

I was expecting the unions to push back. Your analysis seems spot on, Aussie.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Socrates Gold Member Offline A Dog With A Bone Posts: 583 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #26 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 7:48am My control is being eroded, so I'm beginning to think this is not a positive development.....
Back to top	image_080.jpg (13 KB \| 25 ) An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows. IP Logged

Lord Herbert

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #27 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 4:50pm

Rudd is going to win the election.

His sheer audacity appeals to the Aussie sense of larrikin quirkiness. He's been a political Rocky Balboa. Got the sh*t kicked out of him, but then climbed back into the ring for one last go at the title.

He got beaten and stomped into the ground, but then rose up again like Christ after the crucifixion.

Somewhere there's a cave in Australia with a rock moved aside... Cool

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #28 - Jul 10^th, 2013 at 4:54pm People like someone with the courage to stand up to the Labor and Liberal thugs and beat them at their own game. Mr Rudd just happens to be that man..and thats why the public luv the little bugga.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38765 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #29 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:16pm Did some very clevah dick up there ^^^^^^ mention that 60% was a more likely number, and that Rudd's proposals would get through. Today was the day Rudd also got the ALP back on a better standing internally. Kevin is going pretty damn fine, thank you very much!
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Poll
Question: Is this a positive development.
Yes 12 (52.2%) No 11 (47.8%) Total votes: 23 « Created by: MOTR on: Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm »