Australian Politics Forum - Rudd crashing through.

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #30 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:21pm Aussie wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:16pm: Kevin is going pretty damn fine, thank you very much! By standing on the heads of desperate and displaced women and children. What price morals?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38765 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #31 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:21pm: Aussie wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:16pm: Kevin is going pretty damn fine, thank you very much! By standing on the heads of desperate and displaced women and children. What price morals?
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Lobo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7407 Sydney Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #32 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:41pm MOTR wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:04am: Isn't this also about breaking down the power of the unions within the Labor party? Yep!! And also puts to bed another one of Abbott's attacks.....
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Lobo

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #33 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:45pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

the only thing that needs to change is that representatives for any area should be chosen by the rank and file in that area .... if that had happened they wouldn't have owed their loyalty to either Rudd or Gillard and none of this would have happened in the first place.

I have long been an advocate for this, even to the extent of putting up a candidate in defiance of Head Office and supporting ONLY that candidate.

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #34 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:48pm Bad idea. Leave it how it is. Sometimes you need to give a leader the flick and do it quickly. Gillard for example. I'd rather those actually elected into power to decide who leads them over what is basically a rabble having any say in the matter.
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Aussie

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #35 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:50pm

Lobo wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

the only thing that needs to change is that representatives for any area should be chosen by the rank and file in that area .... if that had happened they wouldn't have owed their loyalty to either Rudd or Gillard and none of this would have happened in the first place.

I have long been an advocate for this, even to the extent of putting up a candidate in defiance of Head Office and supporting ONLY that candidate.

Capacity for that has existed for decades, and still does. Plebiscites, they are known as.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38765 Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #36 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:52pm Lobo wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:41pm: MOTR wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:04am: Isn't this also about breaking down the power of the unions within the Labor party? Yep!! And also puts to bed another one of Abbott's attacks..... Yes, no more 'faceless men' stuff.
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Lobo

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #37 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:09pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 6:46am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

skippy. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:57pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

I think there some merit in what he is proposing but he wants to go too far.

Okay. Where is the 'merit' and where is the 'too far?'

I think it's a fairly reasonable ask given the recent circumstances. Both parties are known for dumping leaders after election losses, but if someone wins an election they should be given the chance to see out that term unless extraordinary circumstances occur. Rudds suggestion to have the rank and file involved guarantees a fair chance for any leader. Who could blame him for wanting to do this. In fact, it probably shows he is fairly confident of doing Abbott over, and wants some insurance for after it.

It should be difficult to change leaders but not impossible. In the situation we had where Gillard was going to be destroyed in the election the option to change to a leader with a chance needs to be available. Locking in stupidity is not the best idea.

Making it more difficult to oust an elected leader is a good Idea involving the rank and file in some way is also positive, making it virtually impossible is going too far.

I'm in favour of the changes, though I'm sure I haven't looked at if from every angle. However, I'm concerned that the trigger which requires 75 per cent of caucus members to support a leadership spill, is far too high. I'd be much happier with 66 per cent.

Yeah....
I was thinking 2/3s plus 1.
Works elsewhere.

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Lobo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7407 Sydney Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #38 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:15pm "I expect Mr Rudd to go to the polls as soon as he possibly can because plainly the things that Mr Rudd has been doing over the last few weeks have no real substance," Mr Abbott said. Has this dick ever had a positive thought???
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Lobo

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #39 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:20pm

Is this the first ever political 'quadruple negative'??

Mr Abbott's assertion that an ETS - to be introduced on July 1, 2014, as the government will announce on Tuesday - was a ''so-called market in the non-delivery of an invisible substance to no one'' sparked an immediate backlash, with critics pointing out that former Liberal prime minister John Howard designed a similar scheme.

Cheesy

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Lobo

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #40 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:29pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:50pm:

Lobo wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 2:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

the only thing that needs to change is that representatives for any area should be chosen by the rank and file in that area .... if that had happened they wouldn't have owed their loyalty to either Rudd or Gillard and none of this would have happened in the first place.

I have long been an advocate for this, even to the extent of putting up a candidate in defiance of Head Office and supporting ONLY that candidate.

Capacity for that has existed for decades, and still does. Plebiscites, they are known as.

I think John is, I know I am, talking about local branch members choosing their own candidate (preferably local) to run for election without interference from Head Office.

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 105301 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Rudd crashing through. Reply #41 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:30pm It's the unnnions what runn labaaaar.
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PZ547

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #42 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:33pm

Lobo wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:15pm:

"I expect Mr Rudd to go to the polls as soon as he possibly can because plainly the things that Mr Rudd has been doing over the last few weeks have no real substance," Mr Abbott said.

Has this dick ever had a positive thought???

What's wrong with you ?

You've managed to get yourself online

Yet you pretend to believe 'our politicians' need to think

Why would they need to think ?

Everything they say and do is dictated to them by their offshore owners

And you get to pay them. For LIFE

Is it that you genuinely don't know this ?

Or are you yet another here who pretends to believe pollies 'make decisions'

because you're hoping to con those who might browse this forum ?

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All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour

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Aussie

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #43 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:39pm

Quote:

I think John is, I know I am, talking about local branch members choosing their own candidate (preferably local) to run for election without interference from Head Office.

As with the LNP, more than one candidate (to run for election for a seat) can run. Local Members then by way of plebiscite (vote) determine who the candidate will be. If your emphasis is on the 'head office' aspect, yes I'm sure that happens but there is still the option for many to seek endorsement.

Odd really. In Fisher (Slipper's seat) there were several LNP candidates for endorsement including Brough and a bloke called McGrath, and it was McGrath LNP Head Office wanted. Brough won the vote because he had stacked the LNP Membership of the local (Kawana) LNP Branch. So HQ's man does not always get up.

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Lobo

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Re: Rudd crashing through.
Reply #44 - Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:53pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 3:39pm:

Quote:

I think John is, I know I am, talking about local branch members choosing their own candidate (preferably local) to run for election without interference from Head Office.

As with the LNP, more than one candidate (to run for election for a seat) can run. Local Members then by way of plebiscite (vote) determine who the candidate will be. If your emphasis is on the 'head office' aspect, yes I'm sure that happens but there is still the option for many to seek endorsement.

Odd really. In Fisher (Slipper's seat) there were several LNP candidates for endorsement including Brough and a bloke called McGrath, and it was McGrath LNP Head Office wanted. Brough won the vote because he had stacked the LNP Membership of the local (Kawana) LNP Branch. So HQ's man does not always get up.

I associate plebiscite (non-binding vote) with referendum (binding vote) on a national basis where all voters (Australia wide)

are asked to decide a proposal.

At local branch level, yes, you can have any number of nominees from which a candidate has to be selected to run in the election, be it local, state, or federal

And Yes again....
I expect HO to butt-out and leave the selection of a local candidate to the local branch members.

Notwithstanding, of course, evidence of blatant branch stacking.

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« Last Edit: Jul 22^nd, 2013 at 4:22pm by Lobo »

"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Poll
Question: Is this a positive development.
Yes 12 (52.2%) No 11 (47.8%) Total votes: 23 « Created by: MOTR on: Jul 8^th, 2013 at 6:57pm »