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How to stop the boats (Read 7558 times)
Karnal
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #75 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 12:50pm
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Another way to stop the boats:

Cease all offshore processing.

Provide decent accommodation and encourage citizens, perhaps from service clubs, to mentor refugees, assisting them to learn the language and culture.

Set a definite period for processing, with a court order required if the period needs to exceeded. Make the decision open to one appeal.

Work through the UN to persuade countries like Sri Lanka to stop terrorising their own populations.

Work with UN, Interpol and Indonesians to track down and incarcerate people smugglers.

Simple, workable and, above all, humane.


And meanwhile, encourage boats to keep coming, risk capsizing off Christmas Island, and watch more men, women and children drowning at sea.

The time's gone for onshore processing and allowing the boats to keep coming. The death toll's now over a thousand - that we know of. There is no humanity in a refugee policy that, for all its good intentions, rewards people who get to Australia by boat.

If you send those who get to Australia home, they risk further persecution. If you don't, they keep coming to Australia and risk drowning at sea.

It seems to me that the risk of persecution back in Sri Lanka or Iran is less than the risk of travelling to Christmas Island on ill-equipped fishing boats. I don't know this (and each case is unique), but it's now clear what the risk of people smuggling vessels is.

If Australia needs to amend the Refugee Treaty to save lives at sea, this seems far more humane to me.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #76 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 12:54pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 2:05pm:
There is only one course of action available unless we are to have mass, unplanned, unsupervised immigration.
This advice applies equally to Abbott & Rudd.

1. Station as many navy vessels as possible across our north western approaches, each equipped with interpreters.
2. Every vessel needs to be equipped with a multi-lingual loud-hail message announcing the following to any boat intercepted:
- you will not be allowed to proceed into Australian waters
- we will supply you with fuel and provisions if you turn back or agree to a tow
- if you disable or scuttle your vessel you will be on your own, we will offer no assistance beyond towing back towards Indonesian waters
3. The navy's orders should be to adhere strictly to these rules.

Nothing else will work. The international community can jump up & down as much as it likes. What can it do? We have the right to protect our borders.


So you think its okay to let them all drown because 1 or 2 have done soemthing to make the boat sink? How compassionate of you.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #77 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 12:59pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 2:50pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 2:48pm:
How about we adopt Gillards policy of flying boat arrivals directly back a UNHCR camp & taking some from there instead.
Amanda Vanstone advocates it.

Pretty sure after word gets back to Indo this is whats happening the boats will stop. No point if your ending up back at camp.

Pity Tony puts himself before human life and solving a problem he thinks is so important.



That would probably work ... but they aren't interested in stopping them, only in the political mileage they can get out of them.


The problem with that is twofold:

1) You mentioned gillard so it has to be wrong (evil, no!, whatever).
2) The ppl here that want to "stop the boats" (including the op) want to stop us from helping anyone whatsoever.

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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #78 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 1:05pm
 
Instead of "stopping the boats" lets look at options for these people.

If we stopped politicising this issue and looked at the claims made for immigration - how many would be legitimate?

If it's over a certain %, you would think that there are other options (planes etc) that might make more sense than housing people on an island costing us billions a year.
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #79 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 1:28pm
 

The total world refugees has roughly doubled from what it was when Howard left.

This surge in refugees has come from countries with a closer geographical location to Australia than in the past (since Vietnam), with Sri Lanka and the middle east producing a lot.

So I think the number of "boats" is a push factor more than a pull factor. 

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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #80 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 3:43pm
 
Chicken Kev making noises about the convention and tightening up the criteria for selection as refugees and not a word from the luvvies.  The silence is as deafening as when Labor excised the mainland from its migration zone. 

Imagine if Howard has made noises about taking a fresh look at the convention and tightening up the criteria, the weeping, wailing and lamentations of the luvvies would be lifting the roof.  There would be screams of racism, instead, nuffin.   Angry Angry

Smacking silence.  Typical hypocrisy of the left but I am no longer surprised by the duplicity.

And still waiting for the memorials at Canberra by the usual rent a crowd now that Labor has well and truly surpassed the death toll of the Howard years.

You lefties need to take a long hard look at yourselves and your flexible outrage.  Or does support for the left silence and trump your own personal convictions? Wankers.
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #81 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 3:48pm
 
your flexible outrage

well coined
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #82 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 3:51pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jul 18th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
Chicken Kev making noises about the convention and tightening up the criteria for selection as refugees and not a word from the luvvies.  The silence is as deafening as when Labor excised the mainland from its migration zone. 

Imagine if Howard has made noises about taking a fresh look at the convention and tightening up the criteria, the weeping, wailing and lamentations of the luvvies would be lifting the roof.  There would be screams of racism, instead, nuffin.   Angry Angry

Smacking silence.  Typical hypocrisy of the left but I am no longer surprised by the duplicity.

And still waiting for the memorials at Canberra by the usual rent a crowd now that Labor has well and truly surpassed the death toll of the Howard years.

You lefties need to take a long hard look at yourselves and your flexible outrage.  Or does support for the left silence and trump your own personal convictions? Wankers. 

Howard would never look at anything because like wank Tony, Howard didn't recognise that the issue was global. He did what he did best: put blinkers around people's eyes. 

In any case, the argument from the left has always been the same in that the solution must be humane. And it must be humane; towing boats back to a farked up Indonesia without the slighest of protection is inhumane.

And for your term flexible outrage, that my friend is your own. It's very convenient for the xenos to argue against the problem because of the death, but the underlying debates over "welfare payments", "salad bowls" , "integration", "terrorism" tell us the entire story:



So the entire flexibility of the outrage is yours and yours alone.



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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #83 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:00pm
 
Why are people ignoring the push factors behind boat people?

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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #84 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:03pm
 
Verge wrote on Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:00pm:
Why are people ignoring the push factors behind boat people?



Because there are no "PUSH" factors Verge. Wink

We have DOLE they come ONLY for that.

Besides if we examined WHY they come with any intellect it might not fit the slogans
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #85 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:04pm
 
Verge wrote on Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:00pm:
Why are people ignoring the push factors behind boat people?


I'm not.  But reality tells us that if we want to solve the immediate problem of deaths at sea, then it must be regional solution of processing in Indonesia via UNHCR. In a way, that'll stop the push as well as I'm sure many people don't just use Indonesia as transit, but end up havign to leave INdonesia because of its ill-treatment of asylum seekers.

Long term, yes, we should be helping the globe deal with the push factors of the actual countries from which people are fleeing.
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #86 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:05pm
 
smithy, who cares why they come? Let them get in line where we make the decisions about who, when and how many.
Or do you think it's OK for us to be blackmailed into accepting anybody with the threat of suicide?
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Karnal
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #87 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:26pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jul 18th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
Chicken Kev making noises about the convention and tightening up the criteria for selection as refugees and not a word from the luvvies.  The silence is as deafening as when Labor excised the mainland from its migration zone. 

Imagine if Howard has made noises about taking a fresh look at the convention and tightening up the criteria, the weeping, wailing and lamentations of the luvvies would be lifting the roof.  There would be screams of racism, instead, nuffin.   Angry Angry 


Because Howard politicized this issue at a time when there were less than 300 refugees arriving by boat a year.

Now, our entire refugee intake is taken out by boat arrivals and 1000 have died at sea.

Labor changed the policies when the number was down to zero. The Pacific detention centres were empty. No one in immigration or Foreign Affairs knew things would spiral out of control like they have.

Sure Rudd should own the change of policy, but this is not the issue when another boat's just gone down. The damage is now done, and Rudd and Abbott have the same resources and potential solutions under their control.

The Rudd government has had complete a turnaround in thinking - particularly Bob Carr. Luvvies be damned, this is now about stopping deaths at sea.
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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #88 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 4:27pm
 
Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Another way to stop the boats:

Cease all offshore processing.


Wrong.

The UK has tens of thousands of unidentified foreigners wandering the country as absconders from the assessment process.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Provide decent accommodation and encourage citizens, perhaps from service clubs, to mentor refugees, assisting them to learn the language and culture.


You can't be serious. 90% of these people are Muslims. What culture are you going to teach them? They will all be destined for Sydney's Muslim ghettoes where the English language is not necessary. There's nothing they want from us culturally. All they want is our supermarkets, our welfare and Aged Pension system, our high wages, and our mosques.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Set a definite period for processing, with a court order required if the period needs to exceeded.


Wrong. No extension. And most of all ~ NO Refugees Tribunal Board stacked with leftwingers, hand-wringing clergy, homosexuals, members of our ethnic communities, etc etc like an audience of a Jenny Brockie 'Insight' show. 

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Make the decision open to one appeal.


(I'm grinding my teeth here, but okay, I'll let this one pass). Every man and his dog knows that the main tactic with pro bono lawyers for asylum-seekers has been one of wearing down the tribunals through sheer attrition... endless appeals).

I'll add another item to your list : No more 'Ministerial Discretion' loopholes for enabling rejected claimants to stay upon the sympathy of the minister for immigration.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Work through the UN to persuade countries like Sri Lanka to stop terrorising their own populations.


Nonsense. The Tamils can migrate to Tamil Nadu just across the waters just the same as coming to Australia on rickety boats. The Sri Lankan government is sorting out some residual problems after their 23 year war.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Work with UN, Interpol and Indonesians to track down and incarcerate people smugglers.


Rabid insanity on methamphetamines. (Don't take that personally. Experimental commentary here).

These People Smugglers are not criminals but heroes to those among the boat-people who are genuinely fleeing for their lives in the same way as Jews were assisted in escaping from the holocaust by being taken over the Pyrenees mountains into Spain.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Simple, workable and, above all, humane.


Nonsense.

I look forward to you submitting your second draft as a corrected edition of the above.

Don't despair. I too suffered many rejections before hitting my full potential. Courage, man, courage!



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Re: How to stop the boats
Reply #89 - Jul 18th, 2013 at 9:32pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 2:05pm:
There is only one course of action available unless we are to have mass, unplanned, unsupervised immigration.
This advice applies equally to Abbott & Rudd.

1. Station as many navy vessels as possible across our north western approaches, each equipped with interpreters.
2. Every vessel needs to be equipped with a multi-lingual loud-hail message announcing the following to any boat intercepted:
- you will not be allowed to proceed into Australian waters
- we will supply you with fuel and provisions if you turn back or agree to a tow
- if you disable or scuttle your vessel you will be on your own, we will offer no assistance beyond towing back towards Indonesian waters
3. The navy's orders should be to adhere strictly to these rules.

Nothing else will work. The international community can jump up & down as much as it likes. What can it do? We have the right to protect our borders.


Wrong. All that needs to be done is to suspend our membership of the UN and with it all treaties, conventions etc signed by our alleged representatives. We would no longer be bound to accept any refugees. Those posing as refugees in our country should be informed that under no circumstances would family reunions be allowed. It might also be helpful if groups who arrived in our country as a result of war in their countries (Lebanon, Iraq, Sri Lanka etc) were informed that it is now safe for them to return to their mother countries.


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