Australian Politics Forum - Executing prisoners of war

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: On Islamic historical sourcing Reply #90 - Aug 8^th, 2013 at 8:26am freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 8:22pm: Ah, you mean the post you did not actually read? Where? Admittedly there have been such a flurry of posts lately that I may have missed some.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: On Islamic historical sourcing Reply #91 - Aug 8^th, 2013 at 2:27pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:35pm: Got to the part where you started blathering about sex slaves and some scorched earth policy, and didn't bother to go any further. You have brought up scorched earth several times since then in response to me, apparently oblivious to what I actually said about it.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

polite_gandalf

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #92 - Aug 8^th, 2013 at 2:57pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

Yet it still permits a scorched earth policy doesn't it? Just so long as it is not 'wanton'? How is this any different from other standards? Is it just that Muslims are more careful to make up excuses and explain the military significance of scorched earth?

Where did you get the idea that a "scorched earth policy" is permitted? Is this an "oblivious" understanding of what you said?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #93 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

Mmm, do you do the same thing when considering Saint Paul (after all, we know he existed, we don't know if Christ existed)?

Quote:

If you think he is just another medieval thug, I am happy to leave it at that.

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab. In some ways better, in some ways worse as a representative of his society of the day. I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period. Only immature fools do otherwise. Are you such a fool?

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Postmodern Trendoid

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #94 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 7:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

Mmm, do you do the same thing when considering Saint Paul (after all, we know he existed, we don't know if Christ existed)?

Quote:

If you think he is just another medieval thug, I am happy to leave it at that.

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab. In some ways better, in some ways worse as a representative of his society of the day. I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period. Only immature fools do otherwise. Are you such a fool?

Good work, Brian Ross. We progressives need to justify murder, rape, and pillage when it suits our agenda. So thank you for pulling out the moral relativism card in this case.

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Only the boat people can save us from our own evil.

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Yadda

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #95 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 7:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab.....

I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period.

We should not judge an important historical figure, Mohammed, because Mohammed merely exhibited the morality of a typical 7th century man ?

That, is your argument ???

1/ Moslems [living today, in the 21st century] revere the 7 th century Mohammed, because all of his actions in life were endorsed praised by the moslem deity, Allah.

2/ ISLAM [and principally, the moslem deity, Allah, directly] instructs moslems that Mohammed, is a person whose life [INCLUDING ALL OF MOHAMMED'S CONDUCT AND ACTIONS IN HIS LIFE] moslems [throughout all time] should seek to imitate.

ISLAM instructs moslems, and moslems believe, that if moslems want to be loved by their deity, Allah, then they need to imitate the life and behaviour of Mohammed.

Google;
muslims must imitate mohammed, his life

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."

Koran 33.21

Quote:

A Beautiful Pattern of Conduct
.....It is a basic principle of Islam that a Muslim should follow the example of the Prophet Mohammad. This is stated in the Quran (Islam's holiest book) no less than 91 times. This is one of the most dangerous and misunderstood facts about Islam. How does a Muslim know how to be a Muslim? By following Mohammad as an example. A Muslim cannot read the Qur'an and discover how to be a Muslim. Not one of the "five pillars of Islam" is in the Qur'an. So it is almost impossible for someone to be a Muslim but not consider Mohammad an example to emulate.

What kind of example was Mohammad? He was kind to his fellow Muslims, and he was often cruel to non-Muslims, especially if they criticized Islam or hindered its relentless expansion. He was perhaps a typical seventh-century warlord — ordering assassinations of his enemies, torturing people for information, owning slaves and having sex with them, and killing enemies in mass executions — but his example is preserved in writing, and so is the Qur'anic encouragement to all devout Muslims to follow his example.

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2008/12/beautiful-pattern-of-conduct.htmli

What Would Muhammad Do?
(a checklist of Muhammad's behaviour)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #96 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 8:23pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab.....

I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period.

We should not judge an important historical figure, Mohammed, because Mohammed merely exhibited the morality of a typical 7th century man ?

That, is your argument ???

Yes.

You got a problem with me pointing out the fallacy of your arguments? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #97 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 8:36pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 8:23pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab.....

I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period.

We should not judge an important historical figure, Mohammed, because Mohammed merely exhibited the morality of a typical 7th century man ?

That, is your argument ???

Yes.

You got a problem with me pointing out the fallacy of your arguments? Roll Eyes

Brian_Ross,

I am completely comfortable with you [or any other person], here on OzPol, expressing your views, and giving an opinion about my views and opinion.

Debate is a contest of ideas.

Right ?

It is good to hear the 'considered' opinions of others, imo.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #98 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:05pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

Mmm, do you do the same thing when considering Saint Paul (after all, we know he existed, we don't know if Christ existed)?

Quote:

If you think he is just another medieval thug, I am happy to leave it at that.

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab. In some ways better, in some ways worse as a representative of his society of the day. I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period. Only immature fools do otherwise. Are you such a fool?

Like I explained the first time round, I am applying modern 21st century western morality to modern, 21st century western people who want to bring back Muhammed's standards.

Do you think that "don't rape, murder and steal" is some kind of new fad?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #99 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 8:23pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab.....

I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period.

We should not judge an important historical figure, Mohammed, because Mohammed merely exhibited the morality of a typical 7th century man ?

That, is your argument ???

Yes.

YOUR ARGUMENT;
You are suggesting that Mohammed's behaviour is irrelevant - because he [was a man who] lived in the 7 th century.

[But, moslems say that to be good moslems [in the 21 st century], that they need to imitate the behaviour of a man who lived in the 7 th century.]

Brian_Ross,

YOUR ARGUMENT - does not stand up.

YOUR ARGUMENT - is logically flawed.

Mohammed's behaviour [in the 7 th century] is NOT irrelevant [today]

- because moslems living today, believe that they need to imitate the behaviour of THAT man [i.e. Mohammed], who lived in the 7 th century.

Mohammed, the murderer and rapist, Mohammed, the pirate and a paedophile.

And moslems who are living today [in societies that are governed by 21 st century laws], believe that if they [moslems] imitate that behaviour, their conduct will be lawful [i.e. in accordance with ISLAMIC law].

Err, something is WRONG, with that 'idea' [imo], which moslems hold and embrace. Tongue

Can't you see that ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #100 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:37pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:10pm:

YOUR ARGUMENT;
You are suggesting that Mohammed's behaviour is irrelevant - because he [was a man who] lived in the 7 th century.

[But, moslems say that to be good moslems [in the 21 st century], that they need to imitate the behaviour of a man who lived in the 7 th century.]

Brian_Ross,

YOUR ARGUMENT - does not stand up.

YOUR ARGUMENT - is logically flawed.

Mohammed's behaviour [in the 7 th century] is NOT irrelevant [today]

- because moslems living today, believe that they need to imitate the behaviour of THAT man [i.e. Mohammed], who lived in the 7 th century.

Mohammed, the murderer and rapist, Mohammed, the pirate and a paedophile.

And moslems who are living today [in societies that are governed by 21 st century laws], believe that if they [moslems] imitate that behaviour, their conduct will be lawful [i.e. in accordance with ISLAMIC law].

Moslems want everyone to live under ISLAMIC law,
which allows [i.e. makes it 'lawful' for] moslems to rape and murder those who do not believe as they [moslems] believe

AGAIN, moslems want everyone to live under ISLAMIC law,
which allows [i.e. makes it 'lawful' for] moslems to rape and murder those who do not believe as they [moslems] believe

And it does not matter where moslems go,
moslems always revere Mohammed [the rapist and murderer and pirate].

And it does not matter where moslems go,
moslems always want exactly the same thing;

To impose ISLAMIC laws and their ISLAMIC culture, upon others.

AGAIN, moslems want everyone to live under ISLAMIC law,
which allows [i.e. makes it 'lawful' for] moslems to rape and murder those who do not believe as they [moslems] believe

i

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Adamant

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #101 - Aug 11^th, 2013 at 11:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time

Muslims do that all the time today don't they sorr brain.

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

we don't know if Christ existed

The muslims think he existed and even acknowledge him as a prophet. You don't know much do you sorr brain?

Hey Sorr Brain had any fan mail of late?

http://gawker.com/tag/brian-ross

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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freediver

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #102 - Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:33pm

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

Mmm, do you do the same thing when considering Saint Paul (after all, we know he existed, we don't know if Christ existed)?

Quote:

If you think he is just another medieval thug, I am happy to leave it at that.

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab. In some ways better, in some ways worse as a representative of his society of the day. I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period. Only immature fools do otherwise. Are you such a fool?

Like I explained the first time round, I am applying modern 21st century western morality to modern, 21st century western people who want to bring back Muhammed's standards.

Do you think that "don't rape, murder and steal" is some kind of new fad?

Brian?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Brian Ross

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #103 - Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:37pm

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 9:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2013 at 6:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 5:32pm:

I am condemning people who hold a womanising, mass murdering, raping, thieving, wife beating pedophile to be an eternal example to all mankind, and who hold his rules to be eternal rules that should be imposed on all mankind.

So, you're applying modern, 21st century, Western morality to a man who lived in in the 7th century, in Arabian society of the time?

Mmm, do you do the same thing when considering Saint Paul (after all, we know he existed, we don't know if Christ existed)?

Quote:

If you think he is just another medieval thug, I am happy to leave it at that.

I think he is a normal, 7th century Arab. In some ways better, in some ways worse as a representative of his society of the day. I don't attempt to judge him by standards other than those of his period. Only immature fools do otherwise. Are you such a fool?

Like I explained the first time round, I am applying modern 21st century western morality to modern, 21st century western people who want to bring back Muhammed's standards.

Do you think that "don't rape, murder and steal" is some kind of new fad?

Brian?

Yes? As long as you keep thinking all Muslims want to "bring back Muhammed's standards," FD, I think you have a problem with your bigoted viewpoint. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: On Islamic historical sourcing
Reply #104 - Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:40pm

Quote:

Yes? As long as you keep thinking all Muslims want to "bring back Muhammed's standards," FD, I think you have a problem with your bigoted viewpoint.

Would you mind pointing out one of these "anti-Muhammedan" Muslims? While your at it, find us and anti-semitic Jew and a Christian who rejects Jesus' example.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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