It's a fair question Gandalf. You say you support Muhammed's example as a great one to follow, but cannot bring yourself to support his actions when viewed objectively. If it is an example to follow, under what circumstances would you follow it?

Yes you have already tried to justify Muhammed's actions. But you would never attempt to justify such behaviour in any other context. Hence my surprise that you described it as an excellent example to follow. All you have done in this thread is explain why you would never be in a position to actually follow that example.

Never ever.

I am viewing it objectively. Objectively, they were prisoners of war. Objectively, he slaughtered them. Objectively, Muhammed and his merry band of warmongers raped their wives. You are the one making up excuses.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 10:47am:


Sure. Folks are always in favor of mass murder since it always sets such an "excellent example"!

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 10:47am:


Sure, gee, mass murder and genocide were always acceptable before we adopted "wishy-washy western liberal morals".
My friend, it is Muhammad and his imperialistic aggression, mass murder, rape and thievery that smears Muhammad.

Muhammadans are always wishing that their reprobate had something to do with Abraham, but what did Abraham over a thousand years before in the same circumstance, when he rescued his nephew Lot from his kidnapers? When those kidnappers even freely offered Abraham the "booty"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TycstTtTt8U

Genesis 14.20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23 That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

You see? Abraham was a moral man that worked to support himself and his family, and so he didn't have steal the fruit of the labor of others, like a common criminal.

Ishaq:475 "We obeyed our Prophet's orders when he called us to war. When he called for violent efforts we made them. The Prophet's command is obeyed for he is truly believed. He will give us victory, glory, and a life of ease.

Satan's people mass murdering, raping and enslaving Yahweh's people, while stealing their property. Muhammad's, Muhammad serving alter-ego "Allah", even lavishing on him a fifth of all of the property stolen from others, just like a Mafia Don.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 10:47am:


1. First of all in order to allege that the Banu Qurayza were betrayers you are going to need to support it through something other than modern day rewriting of the record, by Muhammadans who recognize it as cold blooded mass murder, and thus try to obscure and cover the record.
Otherwise the truth would have to be recognized which is that Muhammad and his band of fellow cutthroat thieves attacked those peaceful farmers solely because they lusted after the property and women of the Banu Qurayza.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zawadi_banu_qurayza.htm

2. Secondly Muhammadans reject as illegitimate that one person could take the punishment for another, so you would have to account that each and every one of the members of the Banu Qurayza tribe were guilty of what you allege. That includes those innocent, peaceful, faithful, literate, productive Jewish farm boys who had just begun to sprout pubic hair.

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Stratos wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 10:43pm:



Stratos,

1/ Abraham was willing to obey God - and sacrifice his son.

2/ Abraham knew [had faith] that God was able to restore life to Isaac [if he obeyed God, and sacrificed his son].

3/ As Genesis 18 attests, Abraham was NOT a psychopath....

4/ Abraham was a righteous man, and a friend of God.



Genesis 18:16
And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17  And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18  Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19  For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20  And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21  I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22  And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23  And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24  Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26  And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27  And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
28  Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
29  And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
30  And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31  And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
32  And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
33  And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.



James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Yadda wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 11:29pm:


Come on Yadda, as his posts increasingly demonstrate, it becomes evermore obvious that he is more interested in spewing blasphemy and fulfilling prophecy than considering the consequences of it.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

The amazing part is that he recognizes fulfilled prophecy like Jews being restored to their land.

"I do recognise the Jewish people returning to Israel as events that were predicted....."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388621936/165#165

This offers us proof of God - yet he continues to blaspheme the God responsible for it, even as he even knows where scripture suggests it will take him.

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 5:01am:


Your understanding is "true" for a Godless carnal person that is of the world, who stands outside of the Spirit of God.

Yadda already explained the truth to you, from the perspective of people that are in the kingdom of God, and filled with God's Spirit. It was a test of Abraham's faith and he passed it with flying colors. Let alone that the incident served as a "type", or foreshadowing, of Yahweh's sacrifice of His own Son, to save us all from sin. He loved us that much.

The part that amazes me is that you keep insisting on spewing blasphemy, against the very God that you recognize as having arranged for prophecy to be fulfilled.
I just keep trying to imagine just what it is you believe you are contributing to this forum.

Since you once again ducked the bulk of my post, it would help me understand you, if you could confirm that when you were with (as  memory serves, the AoG) did you ever speak in tongues?

Pete Waldo wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 11:36am:


No idea why you would think either of those things, as I have never mentioned being part of an AoG church, or speaking in tongues.

I have never been at a church where tongues were spoken, or attended an AoG service.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:


Gonna have to disagree with this Gandalf.  I understand faith is supposed to be above all, but surely any faith which instructs a man to murder his own child as an act of faith is downright horrific.  Any sane person would not comply with this kind of request.