Australian Politics Forum - Why would anyone support Thommo?

Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #90 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:38am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 11:59pm:

the left would support thommo for his vote

Just as the right organised this whole episode specifically to prevent his vote. It has never been about if he has done anything wrong or not at any level.

The same way that the Liberals covered up for slipper for over a decade even when they didn't even need his vote.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Why would anyone support Thommo? Reply #91 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:44am Making it Left v Right is a tad absurd DNA given your stance on this issue (and many others) seems to be based upon your dislike of the Liberal party?
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cods

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #92 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:54am

the fact that this man has been under a cloud more or less as long as he has been an MP...I think makes this case different from most.

what he is accused of isnt related to his being in govt.. it was his Unions Job prior to his selection to run for the labor party..

in other words he had priors....

slipper yes not a nice piece of work I admit.. but the charges were regarding his Parliamentary ethics..and from what I know he repaid the amounts he was accused of taking..

THOMO has neither admitted or offered to repay anything..he claims he has done nothing wrong....

now I dont care if he paid for a haircut on the credit card.. he would know that is not its intention...he has by the look of this used this card over and over again for personal benefit.as if it was his own bank account..

now is he thoughtless.. or an idiot.. or just a plain old fashioned thief????

on top of that he is doin g his best to prove it was someone else that used it.. even though it had his name on it and it was his responsibility..loathsome.

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cods

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #93 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:56am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:38am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 11:59pm:

the left would support thommo for his vote

Just as the right organised this whole episode specifically to prevent his vote. It has never been about if he has done anything wrong or not at any level.

The same way that the Liberals covered up for slipper for over a decade even when they didn't even need his vote.

I cant remember it being covered up.. slipper always was well known for dipping..

but didnt he have to pay it back???...

so you cant really compare the two of them I dont think.. many in parliament have had to return funds they claimed...

the thing with slipper it happened too often..lol

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #94 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:00am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:44am:

Making it Left v Right is a tad absurd DNA given your stance on this issue (and many others) seems to be based upon your dislike of the Liberal party?

Are you saying that it is silly for me to post a balanced opinion which happens to be true because I don't like or more specifically trust the Liberals ????

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muso

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #95 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:18am

RightSadFred wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:53am:

muso

As far as I understand the guy is bankrupt, he needs to act or be really embarrassed as his legal bill will start mounting.

To win a election in what would be a marginal seat you need a credible candidate (he is far from that now) and you need a few 100k to campaign (he definitely does not have that) the guy is finished as far as I can tell unless some bleeding heart sugar daddy wants to rescue this grub.

Regardless of any criminal convictions which is more about evidence, the guys defence is a sergeant Schultz defence which no one believes. It is likely that he was set up but that suggests he was incompetent at his job.

For the HSU members I think they need this guy to be convicted, having more than a 100K cash being rorted through his credit card without reporting it to the police suggests he knew about it ..... that to be is clear evidence of fraud which he must of known about ..... it was his credit card with his name on it. All a corporate card means is the company is also responsible for the card.

The whole idea of a corporate credit card (which I have one for my own company) is all about transparency..... mine is actually blocked from taking cash out of.

First, there is no doubt in my mind that he's finished and lost all credibility.

As for as corporate cards are concerned, it depends on the company. I have a corporate card today which is very tightly controlled. However, in a previous role back in the 90s, I had a company Amex that could be used for "entertainment". The guidelines stated that you could buy drinks "within reason", so the lines between personal use and company use were blurred. I used to travel overseas a lot and my schedule was quite hectic, so much so that I had two passports (that was an enormous rigmarole to organise), because at any given time, one passport was tied up with visa applications for a future trip. My manager told me that if I was held up in Paris for a few days, it was quite reasonable to put a few things like car hire, boat hire etc on the card, and he was the one who authorised it every month without a single complaint. Of course I never had the gall to use it for the Lido or worse

although some did.

So if Thommo was responsible for authorising his own card, I doubt very much if he'll be faced with any charges whatsoever.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #96 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:21am

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:54am:

the fact that this man has been under a cloud more or less as long as he has been an MP...I think makes this case different from most.

what he is accused of isnt related to his being in govt.. it was his Unions Job prior to his selection to run for the labor party..

in other words he had priors....

slipper yes not a nice piece of work I admit.. but the charges were regarding his Parliamentary ethics..and from what I know he repaid the amounts he was accused of taking..

THOMO has neither admitted or offered to repay anything..he claims he has done nothing wrong....

now I dont care if he paid for a haircut on the credit card.. he would know that is not its intention...he has by the look of this used this card over and over again for personal benefit.as if it was his own bank account..

now is he thoughtless.. or an idiot.. or just a plain old fashioned thief????

on top of that he is doin g his best to prove it was someone else that used it.. even though it had his name on it and it was his responsibility..loathsome.

even though it had his name on it and it was his responsibility

I rather think that the fact that his name impression on the slip used on the released documents was spelt wrong lends some credibility to the assertion of some type of fraud with the card may have occurred?

slipper yes not a nice piece of work I admit.. but the charges were regarding his Parliamentary ethics..and from what I know he repaid the amounts he was accused of taking.

No I was talking about a previous sexual abuse allegation that the Liberals had known about, covered up then went on to preselect him for a further 3 terms.

Quote:

In the documents, former Peter Slipper adviser James Ashby said officials in the Howard's government knew as far back as 2003 that Mr Slipper, then a Liberal,” had formed a relationship of a sexual nature with a younger male member of staff" employed in his office.

The documents allege that Tony Nutt, a senior adviser to Mr Howard, was told of the allegations "in or around mid-2003".

The claim says a former Slipper staffer, Megan Hobson, had seen a video in which Mr Slipper "was observed to":
• enter the bedroom of a junior staff member through the window";
• lie on a bed with the junior male staff member in shorts and T-shirt and hug the junior male staff member in an intimate fashion" and
• urinate out of the window of the room."

The documents allege that Mr Nutt then told Ms Hobson to "forget all about it".

"The Commonwealth thereafter failed to take reasonable and effective steps to prevent the Second Respondent (Mr Slipper) from utilising his office to foster sexual relationships with young male staff members," the claim alleges.

Around the time of the May budget week in 2003, the junior males staffer complained to Ms Hobson that he had been "abused by Peter''.

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« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:26am by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #97 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:24am

muso wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:18am:

RightSadFred wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:53am:

muso

As far as I understand the guy is bankrupt, he needs to act or be really embarrassed as his legal bill will start mounting.

To win a election in what would be a marginal seat you need a credible candidate (he is far from that now) and you need a few 100k to campaign (he definitely does not have that) the guy is finished as far as I can tell unless some bleeding heart sugar daddy wants to rescue this grub.

Regardless of any criminal convictions which is more about evidence, the guys defence is a sergeant Schultz defence which no one believes. It is likely that he was set up but that suggests he was incompetent at his job.

For the HSU members I think they need this guy to be convicted, having more than a 100K cash being rorted through his credit card without reporting it to the police suggests he knew about it ..... that to be is clear evidence of fraud which he must of known about ..... it was his credit card with his name on it. All a corporate card means is the company is also responsible for the card.

The whole idea of a corporate credit card (which I have one for my own company) is all about transparency..... mine is actually blocked from taking cash out of.

First, there is no doubt in my mind that he's finished and lost all credibility.

As for as corporate cards are concerned, it depends on the company. I have a corporate card today which is very tightly controlled. However, in a previous role back in the 90s, I had a company Amex that could be used for "entertainment". The guidelines stated that you could buy drinks "within reason", so the lines between personal use and company use were blurred. I used to travel overseas a lot and my schedule was quite hectic, so much so that I had two passports (that was an enormous rigmarole to organise), because at any given time, one passport was tied up with visa applications for a future trip. My manager told me that if I was held up in Paris for a few days, it was quite reasonable to put a few things like car hire, boat hire etc on the card, and he was the one who authorised it every month without a single complaint. Of course I never had the gall to use it for the Lido or worse

although some did.

So if Thommo was responsible for authorising his own card, I doubt very much if he'll be faced with any charges whatsoever.

As an example I pay for the department Xmas night out with mine, I would get a wrap over the knuckles if it goes over $10,000 and they may take a bit out of my budget is the threat.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #98 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:12am

Muso that's a really good point about corporate card expensing.

The problem for me lies in the structuring and attitude that exists in Unions and Public Sectors.

I work for a listed entity which has specific, stringent ethical policies and expensing systems.
I have a Corp Amex card which I use very often, mainly to refill my car and pay for flights, hotels etc.
We use the Concur system of reporting - this is linked to the card itself and must be filled out every month. If a red alarm vendor appears it requires a specific and detailed reason as to why it has been used - a strip club or brothel being prime examples.

Now I interviewed a guy back in May for a Controller role, he was coming out of a Union.
He told me that the biggest headache for him is poor control of corporate expensing.
He said they have the ability to withdraw cash on the card (the biggest no no in expense auditing given its impossible to trace how its spent) and that he has often veterans of 15 and 20 years in the Union telling him its none of his business how they spend money on their card.
His union has a write off of $450,000 for unallocated expenses on their balance sheet.

I can't imagine his union operates much different to the others.

There is no way we as a listed entity with clear ethical guidelines could operate in that way.

Until the Unions and the public sectors change their mindset of entitlement and by that nature changes its internal expensing audit systems, they will continue to attract and produce unethical corrupt people such as Mr Thomson.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Why would anyone support Thommo? Reply #99 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:12am .
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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #100 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:32am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:12am:

Muso that's a really good point about corporate card expensing.

The problem for me lies in the structuring and attitude that exists in Unions and Public Sectors.

I work for a listed entity which has specific, stringent ethical policies and expensing systems.
I have a Corp Amex card which I use very often, mainly to refill my car and pay for flights, hotels etc.
We use the Concur system of reporting - this is linked to the card itself and must be filled out every month. If a red alarm vendor appears it requires a specific and detailed reason as to why it has been used - a strip club or brothel being prime examples.

Now I interviewed a guy back in May for a Controller role, he was coming out of a Union.
He told me that the biggest headache for him is poor control of corporate expensing.
He said they have the ability to withdraw cash on the card (the biggest no no in expense auditing given its impossible to trace how its spent) and that he has often veterans of 15 and 20 years in the Union telling him its none of his business how they spend money on their card.
His union has a write off of $450,000 for unallocated expenses on their balance sheet.

I can't imagine his union operates much different to the others.

There is no way we as a listed entity with clear ethical guidelines could operate in that way.

Until the Unions and the public sectors change their mindset of entitlement and by that nature changes its internal expensing audit systems, they will continue to attract and produce unethical corrupt people such as Mr Thomson.

It has been a long time since I was in the public sector but when I was there was no way you could get cash on a card and the financial control on spending was more than twice as tough as anything I have found in the private sector where abuse is rife and in a lot of areas expected with a wink.

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muso

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #101 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:33am

What you said about Unions and corporate expenses doesn't surprise me in the least. The question is - how many other ex Union executives could be hauled over the coals for what they considered perks of the job?

Part of the problem lies with the Union culture itself, although using a Corporate Credit Card to pay for a hooker is indefensible and any normal person should know that it's wrong.

That said, I'd be very surprised if this resulted in any criminal charges.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #102 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:40am

The attitude is 90% of it.

Change management is the most difficult area of HRM as we are told when we are studying.

I have experienced how hard that is.

Seriously simple things like reorganizing the office spaces - think "How come I don't get a window desk when I have been here longer?" Etc - can cause grief to changing IT systems etc.

When you add in a policy change to removing a "perk" that they've always got away with then it requires huge corporate and high level support.

My issue is that they've hung Thomson out to dry - and the guy is clearly a grub - but not actually addressing any of the fundamental issues in their institutionalized expense routing of members money.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #103 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:45am

muso wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:33am:

What you said about Unions and corporate expenses doesn't surprise me in the least. The question is - how many other ex Union executives could be hauled over the coals for what they considered perks of the job?

Part of the problem lies with the Union culture itself, although using a Corporate Credit Card to pay for a hooker is indefensible and any normal person should know that it's wrong.

That said, I'd be very surprised if this resulted in any criminal charges.

We see a lot of pointing at unions and it is clearly wrong but any time you see a group of business people walk into a brothel do not make the mistake of thinking that they wont be using a corporate card.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #104 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:55am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

The attitude is 90% of it.

Change management is the most difficult area of HRM as we are told when we are studying.

I have experienced how hard that is.

Seriously simple things like reorganizing the office spaces - think "How come I don't get a window desk when I have been here longer?" Etc - can cause grief to changing IT systems etc.

When you add in a policy change to removing a "perk" that they've always got away with then it requires huge corporate and high level support.

My issue is that they've hung Thomson out to dry - and the guy is clearly a grub - but not actually addressing any of the fundamental issues in their institutionalized expense routing of members money.

If he is guilty which looks likely then I suspect that union management are not doing much more than emulating the business community.

I have found that removing unjustifiable perks to be every easy as long as it isn't at the management level.

I find that employees understand when they can not justify something but management believe they have the right to expect the unjustifiable.

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